Again,i have to destroy,take apart the biased retarded statements made by some fanboys in fansites.
The scans belong to the Daizenshuu.
Here we go!
First these fucking retards decided to create facts to prove their brainless theories.
Here are their stupid assumptions why Tenshinhan could not achieve a power level in the millions.
1. Tenshinhan to be somewhere, anywhere near the Saiyans and Piccolo and to ignore that humans are simply not as good at fighting or training as the sayans.
Ok fucking retard now i have to take you apart and destroy this biased brainless retarded statement.
What happened when all of them trained for the sayan saga to fight
Nappa and Vegeta?
I'll tell you!
A fucking retard like you is saying that humans and Tenshinhan with his alien blood aren't as good at training as sayajins or piccolo,
but every single human and Tenshinhan have gotten a lot more stronger of less than a year with kami-sama exactly 150 days learning Namek training system (using weights meditation,etc,)
and 78 days training by himself than goku did in 8 years.
Goku trained three years under kami and Popo supervision and 5 years by himself,but still using namek training system like weights,etc.
Conclusion,,in 228 days Tenshinhan came from 250 to 1830=732% increase instead goku in 8 years goku came from 260 to 416
Let's not forget that goku used the hyperbolic chamber during 1 month to prepare himself for the 23 world tournament.
But,there is worse fucking retard,if you use manga powerlevels,
you will find out that in the beginning of DBZ
Piccolo had a pl of 408 and
So difference between Piccolo and krillin was 408-206=202
when they are face to face with sayans:
that lead us to the conclusion that the
difference between Piccolo and krillin (after 228 days of training, precisely 7 months and 18 days under namek training system)
which means dumbass that difference between the 2 warriors decreased.
The difference between a namek and a human decreased.
Because now they trained under the same training system.
Brainless retarded statement:It was a plot device.
Answer:In that case it was a plot device for Piccolo too fucking brainless and the difference between them decreased.
How do you explain that fucking retard?lol
Plus how do you explain the fact that:
Tenshinhan saga: Goku and Tenshinhan are equals
King Piccolo saga: Goku is better through holy water
Piccolo Jr saga: Goku is better through previous holy water and
Kami's training instead Tenshinhan trains alone
And how do you explain such a tiny difference between tenshinhan
250 to piccolo 408 and goku 416 and let's not forget these 2 received better trainings to have such difference.
Let's add the fact that the difference in the 23 World tournament was smaller ex:tenshinhan was equal or superior to goku with weights
which means that if tenshinhan trains with weights after the 23 tournament he would have a power level equal or superior to 334-goku's power level with weights.
That is the reason why the number given to tenshinhan in the manga was wrong and it should be 350 or the pl of 329 given to piccolo after the fight with raditz should belong to tenshinhan.
After all,sayajins are the only guys with zenkai after a beating.
2-Second, tenshinhan could not reach the millions
according with these fucking retards,because:
Ginyu was the second-strongest being in the entire universe, and that the Ginyu Force was unstoppable, meaning 50,000 or so was completely unattainable. 50,000 was enough to kick the ass of EVERYONE IN THE FUCKING UNIVERSE except for Ginyu and Freeza.
Are you fucking retarded??lol
Ginyu wasn't the second-strongest being in the universe fucking retard.
Freeza's father,King Cold,Pui Pui,Yakon,etc ,all of them were stronger
than ginyu fucking retard.
Bhurta also said he was the fastest guy in the universe.But at the time goku, ginyu and freeza were faster than Bhurta.
Now, do you realize how stupid you are?lol
Do you have any idea how a script works?
Of course not,you are a fucking biased retard.
Ginyu powerlevel was great in namek,because
Toriyama was hyping ginyu force and ginyu to show how great goku was at the time,it is a regular basic script technique used by writers,specially in the japanese mangas.
What do you expect?
Toriyama saying"Ginyu and ginyu force are fucking weaklings
and goku the main character defeated a bunch of weaklings.
No,fucking retard,the creator has to show goku's greatness
in that moment.
In fact, ginyu force was great in Namek saga,But after freeza's battle,
all of them are old news except Freeza(former main villain).
If ginyu power level is so relevant, tell me why nobody
speaks about him?
No one talks about ginyu,because his pl in cell saga is ridiculous for a z-senshi.
When krillin is flying with gohan piccolo and goku,he says how worried he is with this battle,
because he isn't a ssj.
Why not, "i couldn't even surpass the all time great ginyu,lol,why do you think i'm worried dumbass?".
Ginyu is not mentioned for the rest of the story obviously, because his pl was ridiculous for everyone in the remaining sagas.
Ginyu isn't a reference for nothing,after namek,so if he isn't a reference in the fucking manga,
you can't use him as a reference fucking dumbass.
Simply their Power levels became obsolete,it is a basic script technique.I mean sayan saga has 3 major characters,raditz nappa and vegeta.
Z- senshi surpassed easily raditz in a couple months.Later in the next saga all of them surpassed nappa and vegeta powerlevel from the previous saga easily.So for the android saga Piccolo's improvement and tenshinhan's kikoho
among other things show us that the logic remains.
This usually happens in japanese manga to minor villains characters,ginyu is not an exception.
Dumb statement:There is a reason Ginyu NEVER LOST before he fought Goku.
Answer:Ginyu lost before dumbass,Ginyu had a technique who allows him to switch bodies,and that wasn't his original body,because when ginyu decides to use
the body change,jeice recognizes the technique which means it isn't the first time ginyu used that technique,plus the daizenshuu tell us that ginyu's original body isn't the one presented in the manga.
Even if that isn't the case,are you saying that ginyu could defeat King Cold Yakon,Pui Pui,lol.
Really, most of the people who say that reaching the millions is basically an impossibility to humans and Tenshinhan, do so entirely to defend the "alien empire" angle of the series that was dropped after a single saga. You need to make a bunch of counter-intuitive assumptions regarding Tenshinhan in the later Sagas in order to defend that kind of view.
To assume that Tenshinhan topped bellow 100.000 is to assume the following things:
1-He had no idea about his own weakness.
He talked about testing himself against the androids, who were said to be stronger than Freeza AFTER he felt Freeza's power while he was on Earth and was told that it wasn't even close to Freeza's real power.
Question:He knew his limits. He's always known his limits. He's also never cared. He's still gone in and done what he could. He did it against Piccolo, he did it against Nappa, he wanted to do it against Freeza, so why wouldn't he do it against the Androids? Especially since he went and did it again against Cell.
Answer:Are you fucking retarded???lol
Unlike when Tenshinhan jumped to try delaying Cell, he didn't have to want to fight against them.
Besides, as it was shown in the Cell Saga, Tenshinhan wouldn't have wanted to participate in that battle if he knew that he had no chance of success at all (see his refusal to train in the RoSaT/hyperbolic chamber to fight against Perfect Cell dumbass).
2-Both Dr.Gero and Cell Jr. must have held back while standing near him. Maybe, they wanted to avoid hurting his feelings or something.
Tenshinhan dodged one of Gero's eye beams and was still standing after a punch from a Cell Jr (both Yamcha and Kuririn were knocked down after a single hit in the manga). Now, he was clearly weaker than Gero, but they can't have been in entirely different dimensions.
3-A technique introduced without any fanfare or special explanation must have the biggest power multiplier in the entirety of DB (I'm talking about the Shin Kikoho).
If his power never surpassed one million, you're talking about a single technique multiplying his power more than 10000 times (or even 10000000, if you believe that Goku didn't use Kaioken against Freeza since the beginning of the battle) to push back Cell's 2nd form against his own will.
Dumb statement:I never saw any of the attack variations get any kind of detailing or explanation. Did they explain why the Spirit Bomb used on Freeza was forming over Goku's head instead of inside him? No. Did they explain how Goku used us feet to do a Kamehameha? No. Hell, they never bothered to go into detail at all with some moves, such as the Big Bang Attack.
Answer: You are a fucking retard,lol, people who believe that Tenshinhan must be under one million seem to operate under the belief that the Shin Kikoho is some super special attack with special proprieties unlike every other (personal) ki based blast in the series, including the Kikoho itself, even though there's no evidence at all of such thing.
And Fucking dumbass the Namek Genki Dama was just a Genki dama powered up by more energy, and, besides the point of formation, didn't show any other special proprieties. I really think some kind of explanation would be necessary in order to make assume that the Shin Kikoho had any special powers not shown by the Kikoho
4- Super Buu (Gotenks absorbed) must be weaker than Freeza's final form.
Both(freeza and super buu) noticed Dende could cure and decided to kill him with a finger beam, performing basically identical actions. Piccolo (fused with Nail) was unable to do anything to stop Freeza's blast, but Tenshinhan stopped Buu's, so, considering how Piccolo had a power level around one million at the time and Tenshinhan's must be lower, Super Buu must be weaker than Freeza,lol. Plus,buutenks call tenshinhan pretty strong.Buutenks aimed to dende but gohan was scared with the energy blast
because the energy blast was powerfull.
Question: Dende created the current set of Dragonballs. The population of Earth was currently dead. Dead Dende = no more Dragonballs. No more Dragonballs = Earth population stays dead. (It's not like Gohan would have had any way of getting to Namek, you know.) So, yeah, he's going to be scared. He want's to be able to bring everyone back after Buu's defeated.
Answer:Are you fucking retarded????Gohan is not going to be scared with a weak blast,because he could avoid the blast easily which means he is not going to be scared with an insignificant blast.And buutenks knew gohan could avoid a weak blast,fucking retard.
Question:Buu didn't know Tenshinhan was there and Buu didn't necessarily fire a very strong or very fast attack at Dende.
what makes you think Dende had any chance at all of avoiding that attack. He had NO CHANCE IN HELL.
It's like saying Mr. Satan could dodge Freeza's Death Beam or something, it just wouldn't happen, as the beam would travel so fast he couldn't even see it
Answer:Fucking retard, the speed of the attack wouldn't change due to Tenshinhan's position.
The energy blast had to be strong/fast enough to not be easily stopped by Gohan from a bad position,dumbass. There's no reason he'd randomly hold back. He wasn't just randomly killing two weaklings, he was doing it to stop Gohan from recovering energy yet again.
Piccolo didn't see Freeza's attack but Tenshinhan was able to see Buu's, that's the difference dumbass.
But we can see other facts too:
-Even if you use math tenshinhan would have several millions easily.
-Daizenhuu 7 tell us you need to have a power level above 3 millions to perform a dangerous technique like Shin Kikoho,if you consider what kaioh ken makes to your body.
Add the fact that tenshinhan states that he is going to mix king kai
teachings with his previous knowledge to increase his power level even more.
-A fighter bellow 1 million is not going to survive a kick from buutensksccolo
Nappa almost killed krillin with a single kick and the difference was only in a few thousands.The result should be instant death.Remember what kaioshin said about freeza.
Kaiohshin said he could kill freeza with a single blow without effort.
Dumb statement:Reecoom put a lot more behind that kick than Buutenks did.
And he called him pretty strong because most of the humans were at pls of around 5-7. If some human at 100,000 comes along, obviously you're going to be pretty surprised.
Answer:Reeccom said he should control himself more then that means he put some power behind the kick,but not full power.
About buutenks,sorry but at the time buutenks=piccolo knowledge about z-senshi power so that retarded assumption doesn´t work.
Why do you insist about that 100.000 bullshit,when that power level isn't mentioned ever in the fucking manga or Daizenshuu as something amazing,after namek saga.
Are you fucking retarded??????
Dumb statement:Just because he absorbed Piccolo, doesn't give him all of his knowledge
Yes,it gives him all of his knowledge and brilliant mind(one of the reasons why super buu absorbed Piccolo was due to his brilliant mind).
During the fight against mystic gohan buutenksccolo tells us several details about piccolo techniques and how piccolo taught gohan in the past.
Again it is stated.
Plus, even if several millions aren't nothing for buutenks,he was surprised that someone
apart from sayajins or piccolo could avoid that blast.
Anyway a guy with piccolo's brains is not going to call a guy bellow i million,pretty strong and even a weak blast made by someone like buutenks is very powerfull.
But we already know the blast was strong,because gohan was there.
And after that buutenks says even a kick given to a guy like tenshinhan was enough to ko him easily.
Ginyu pl isn't even a consideration in buu's saga or any other after namek,so give up with that dumb theories.
- Goku was willing to fusion with Tenshinhan
i doubt Goku would have wanted to fusion with him unless he was in his millions, if not Goku would have douted the idea like he did with Mr. Satan.
-No one is going to invite a fighter to train in the rosat(hyperbolic chamber)
if you are bellow millions.
Dumb statement:Tenshinhan + Tri-beam = helpful. Current situation = bad. Helpful = good. Besides, they had 10 days. It's not like there wouldn't be leftover time where none of the more useful fighters could enter the RoSaT anymore. May as well send in as many as possible, cross your fingers, and hope for a miracle.
Answer:Do you like getting thoroughly humiliated with your brainless biased assumptions????
It is a shame that at the time tenshinhan didn't say something like"sorry piccolo but my shin kikouhou will not be useful. Cross your fingers???What kind of bullshit is this?
You are claiming Tenshinhan has 50.000,there is no miracle who can help Tenshinhan.
Actually, Tenshinhan refused the invitation,because he couldn't surpass Perfect Cell,
(Perfect Cell not ginyu dumbass) in 2
days or 2years-stated in the manga.
Why not a line like"are you crazy what i'm going to do with a pl. of 50.000 or i couldnt' surpass freeza first from why the hell did you invite me to train.
It makes more sense and it is the only possibility here.
Why did he use cell's name?Why not the great ginyu,dumbass.
The only thing eventually unattainable for Tenshinhan was Perfect Cell power.
That's why Tenshinhan says in the fucking manga..."I won't be ready to beat Cell".
You see, the only power level who can be unattainable for Tenshinhan is Cell's power.
Considering Tenshinhan's performance and actions in the Cell and Buu Sagas, assuming that he was an ant thousand times weaker than even minor villains is the counter-intuitive interpretation. The series clearly wasn't written in that way.
Let's use some math,:
In king kai planet unlike Goku, Tien had Yamcha to train with for 50% of the time. So his increases for the first half of his training would be higher. I decided to only add 33% instead of a possible 50% increase.
So it looks more like this:
That means that at the start of their training, Goku was 800, and Tien was still 1800. Goku increased by 1000% in 118 days. So Tien would theoretically increase by 1333% in the first 118 days, then by another 352% in the next 32 days. Then Yamcha would leave. Then by another 1000% in the remaining 118 days. And then by 500% in the remaining 60 days.
This puts him at no less than 4,222,944 when he is revived.For this second part, I will use four Tien power levels. The first is 900,000 the second is 4,222,944, the third is 2,000,000, and the fourth is 45,000(what he would get from a mere 2500% increase)
Ok, Tien had 5 years from his revival untill the time he Kikoho'd Cell. So I will use those 5 years to show how much he could have increased.
I have taken a definite increase, which is the increase from Raditz Saga Piccolo to Vegeta Saga Piccolo, using Daizenshuu numbers, as my base.
Piccolo increased from 408(well slightly higher but w/e) to 3500 in exactly 150 days of solitary training, and 138 days of training with Gohan. Goku stated in the hyperbolic chamber that training with a much weaker fighter will actually slow your own increase until they start to get near your level. So the thing is, the 138 days would have seen a slower % increase than the 150 days.
Anyway, I have to make an assumption here, that if Piccolo can manage 8.75% increase in 288 days with a weaker fighter like Gohan, then I must find a suitable increase for Tien training with the ever useless Chaotzu(let's ignore the fact that Tenshinhan can spar against himself due to the 4 clones technique).
As I said before, a lot of Piccolo's increase would be from his solitary meditation or whatever it is he does. I have determined that 4x is a believable amount. But for arguments sake lets also have 1.5x and 6x which are the lowest and highest extremes I can bring myself to believe. I can also use the retarded logic that the higher your power level, the harder it is to increase it (even if dragon ball manga,anime and daizenshuu show us that the higher your power level, the easier it is to increase it). This starts at x3, and each year goes down by .5, so year 2 is x2.5 and so on. This fourth possibility is incredibly flawed.
And so the following chart is born
Starts at 900,000
-1A(1.5x per year)
Y1:1,350,000 Y2:2,025,000 Y3:3,037,500 Y4:4,556,250 Y5:6,834,375
-1B(4x per year)
Y1:3,600,000 Y2:14,400,000 Y3:57,600,000 Y4:230,400,000 Y5:921,600,000-
-1C(6x per year)
Y1:5,400,000 Y2:32,400,000 Y3:194,400,000 Y4:1,166,400,000 Y5:6,998,400,000
-1D(Decreasing Increase x3 x2.5 x2 x1.5 x1)
Y1:2,700,000 Y2:6,750,000 Y3:13,500,000 Y4:20,250,000 Y5:20,250,000
Starts at 4,222,944
-2A(1.5x per year)
Y1:6,334,416 Y2:9,501,624 Y3:14,252,436 Y4:21,378,654 Y5:30,267,981
-2B(4x per year)
Y1:16,891,776 Y2:67,567,104 Y3:270,268,416 Y4:1,081,073,664 Y5:4,324,294,656
-2C(6x per year)
No point in doing, this one has Tien in the megabillions...
-2D(Decreasing Increase x3 x2.5 x2 x1.5 x1)
Y1:12,668,832 Y2:31,672,080 Y3:63,344,160 Y4:95,016,240 Y5:95,016,240
Starts at 2,000,000
-3A(1.5x per year)
Y1: 3,000,000 Y2: 4,500,000 Y3: 6,750,000 Y4: 10,125,000 Y5: 15,187,500
-3B(4x per year)
Y1: 8,000,000 Y2: 3,200,000 Y3: 128,000,000 Y4: 512,000,000 Y5: 2,048,000,000
-3C(6x per year)
Once again Tien in the megabillions. Waste of time
-3D(Decreasing Increase x3 x2.5 x2 x1.5 x1)
Y1: 6,000,000 Y2: 15,000,000 Y3: 30,000,000 Y4: 45,000,000 Y5: 45,000,000
Starts at 45,000
-4A(1.5x per year)
Y1: 67,500 Y2: 101,250 Y3: 151,875 Y4: 227,812 Y5: 341,718
-4B(4x per year)
Y1: 180,000 Y2: 720,000 Y3: 2,880,000 Y4: 11,520,000 Y5: 46,080,000
-4C(6x per year)
Y1: 270,000 Y2: 1,620,000 Y3: 9,720,000 Y4: 58,320,000 Y5: 349,920,000
-4D(Decreasing Increase x3 x2.5 x2 x1.5 x1)
Y1: 135,000 Y2: 337,500 Y3: 675,000 Y4: 1,012,500 Y5: 1,012,500
As you can see, my calculations have mostly pointed in the direction of a Tien in the millions.
Even my attempted Uber-Tien-Hater-Realistic-Increase-Diehard-Pleaser Type(4D) reached 1,000,000.
Tien haters, this is the one which is my personal favourite as it shows even with only 45k starting, and a below expected multiplier, Tien can reach 1,000,000)
-4D(Decreasing Increase x3.8 x3.3 x2.8 x2.3 x1.8)
Y1: 171,000 Y2: 564,300 Y3: 1,580,040 Y4: 3,634,092 Y5: 6,541,365
The "30x increase" is base purely on the fact that Piccolo increased by 8.75x in one year.
Are you saying it is impossible for a human or tenshinhan to increase by even half that?
Its after more than 262 days at king kai's, while training harder than Goku and with a training partner(Tien), and then 3 years of training for your life, when humans,Tenshinhan and namek Z fighters are shown to gain much bigger increase than normal.(Piccolo in android saga, all humans and Tenshinhan after 1 year of training for saiyans.
Question:Do you think he can suddenly gain ten times as much power while training on Earth, with just Choatzu, then he did training under Kami and King Kai combined? That would be counter-intuitive.That requires the wild guess that living in the mountains is more effective than King Kai's training.
Answer:Again you show your fucking ignorance about dragon ball part 1 the basis to understand dragon ball Z.
Training with a master under special conditions and then following with their own regiment to improve even more was a standard repeated several times through Dragonball fucking dumbass.
Roshi tells Goku that traveling around the world was the best training he could get, Goku does the same after training an undetermined amount of time with Kamisama, the earthlings do the same with Karin and later Kamisama too... There's no reason to assume that Kaio's training was suddenly an unreachable peak that couldn't be improved through a personal regiment, unlike every other training in the series up to that point.In the end they all started training on their own because they already learnt what they have to do from their different masters.
Kaioh saying that his training is as good as he says it is doesn't mean he's right. It just follows the same logic used in the previous trainings made by Z-heroes with Kame Sennin Karin or Kami,all of them are amazing,but after some time the heroes improve even more by themselves.
Their trainings are great until they can teach them something new,when they
can't teach them more new things those trainings aren't so effective anymore
ex:When kami taught them everything he said..."Now you can go and train by yourselves,it is the best thing to do...".
Again,following with their own regiment to improve even more what they already learnt was a standard repeated several times through Dragonball.
That is the rule we must apply for the rest of the show and not random brainless theories.
Plus,Goku and Vegeta did better with their gravity training, and we don't really know what kind of training ten shin han did. Obviously, whatever kind of training he did, was good if he could stop second form cell like that even when Piccolo fused with kami couldn't stop 1st form cell.
Conclusion,the rule is that all the Z-warriors improve a lot more after learning a new training system.
Question:Tenshinhan knew his limits. He's always known his limits. He's also never cared. He's still gone in and done what he could. He did it against Piccolo, he did it against Nappa, he wanted to do it against Freeza, so why wouldn't he do it against the Androids? Especially since he went and did it again against Cell.
That's completely different,dumbass. That point was brought up when Bulma suggested killing Dr.Gero before he activated the androids. Unlike when he jumped to try delaying Cell, he didn't have to want to fight against them.
Besides, as it was shown in the Cell Saga, Tenshinhan wouldn't have wanted to participate in that battle if he knew that he had no chance of success at all (see his refusal to train in the RoSaT/hyperbolic chamber to fight against Perfect Cell).
Answer:How do you know how many times Gero is weaker than freeza,Toriyama told you fucking retard?
Plus,Gero was still strong enough to make a SSJ Vegeta who had just spent energy with the Big Bang attack need to bluff to make him escape. Remember that an exhausted Goku transformed into a SSJ was enough to finish off Freeza, only having some problems when he used 100%. Even if he wasn't on Freeza's level, he still was very powerful.C-19 was punished by super sayajin goku and if he could
withstand his shots,knowing that goku wanted to finish the fight quickly(stated by vegeta in the manga) it shows how powerfull they were and we know Gero was stronger than c-19.
For the retards who say ..."Goku was sick nad his ki was dropping..."
It is true,but you need to maintain an high ki level to sustain a super sayajin
transformation and after those 3 years goku was a lot stronger than before.
Gero had to have sometime of level reading device to know how to calculate how powerful they started off and what they would be in the future at their history of progression. Gero made cyborg tao pai pai they would have seen that budokai at least as the starting point, and would have used the saiyan's arrival for the first increases in power, either multiples or additives.
They also have some type of level scouter for they "sense" Yamcha's level heading for them, and they believe it to be goku. It could be that they are basing it off kaioken goku, but they would also have added some time of 4 year increase to that, thus yamcha must be around goku's estimated level from their databases calculated level for goku in 4 years.
They go on to tell goku they have been watching him and now his strength and skills.
And that even projecting the most extreme levels of improvement for him, which was probably at least 20x sense he went 416-8000+.
So according with my estimates earlier they expected to find goku in the millions and let's not
forget that they saw Ohzaru(gorilla)Vegeta with a pl of 180.000 if you add previous goku's improvement for the sayans more kaioh ken more more ozharu,they expected to find goku in the millions.
No doubt about that.
Yamcha went from 177 to around at least 1400 ( 7.9 increase in one year) And yes They witnessed the fight with the saiyans and knew of some measuring unit of power given off the warriors.
Yamcha had sparring partners for that one year, and never again. And like I said, and most people agree, in days and years they progress far better with great increases. Humans increase well also. Like krillin on namek. A 20x increase may not be far off from reasonable for the humans sense krillin became over ten times stronger in one day. Even if you use addivite leveling up it would make sense that all the Z warriors add more later on when they are stronger than when they where weaker, where in dragonball they may add 10 to there level in a year they add 1600 for the sayan saga or millions for android saga expressed by Piccolo and Tenshinhan achievements in dragonball z.
Also, training is not just sparring, take note of Gohan and Goten's training, when Goten was throwing rocks at Gohan. This was before Gohan knew Goten to have any decent level of power, so wouldn't Gohan train on his own if Self training>>Training with a much weaker partner?
Ok, lets say Tien was PL:100. Tien trains for a year in the wilderness and increases to 1000. Then Tien splits into ten PL:100 Tiens. Each one would train in the wilderness for a year, and then reach 1,000. Then they rejoin and are 10,000.
You could argue, "Hell, why didn't Tien just stay normal and train for a year", which is a valid point, but the idea here is that this training gets past PL limitations for certain kinds of training. Like if wilderness training was useless past PL:1000, then the whole Tien could not increase from it anymore, but the PL:100 Tien's could still get the normal increase until they hit 1000. Theres also the slim possibility, that when the Tien's rejoin they would get a Piccolo+Kami=Kamiccolo style increase
The Robot's quite possibly could have heard the explanation, so that would mean it is based off Goku's 416 to 8000 power level increase in one year.
At x20 per year, the power they would have detected is 66 million(!)...
Even f it was x20, then x15, then x10, then x5 you get 6,240,000.
Even you use this retarded decrease theorie his power level would be easily in the millions.
Plus the exact rate of decrease wouldn't go from x20 to x.025 in only a few years, also note that Dr Gero made his Androids at high hundred million PL levels, which wouldn't be necessary against a Goku in the 10 or 100 thousands, or even low millions. It shows that Dr Gero expected Goku to be in the millions.
dumb statement:When Gero used his laser beam he wasn't aiming at Tenshinhan, so it doesn't matter if tenshinhan avoided that blast.
Answer:The "aiming" part doesn't matter,dumbass. He still fired towards the place Tenshinhan was standing, and Tenshinhan needed (and was able) to dodge the blast when Piccolo couldn't dodge freeza's blasts in namek.
Dumb statement:As for the Cell Jr.s Tenshinhan was taken down just as easily as everyone else.
Answer:Kuririn is knocked down after one attack (to his back), and a second one breaks his spine. Yamcha is hit once and then in the background of a group shot is shown lying on the ground, while a Cell Jr attacks him. Next focused panel, a Cell Jr. is breaking his arm.
Tenshinhan is hit once in the head. In the group shot, he is still standing trying to punch a Cell Jr, and then in another panel the Cell Jr. kicks him again and he isn't shown until the end of the chapter, when he's thrown at the ground unconscious.
Of course, at the end of the chapter, he was lying on the ground just like everyone else, but there's no way someone with a power lower than one million would be able to put up any sort of resistance there.
Of course, unlike the Dr. Gero example, there's actually evidence that the Cell Jrs. were holding back, however, there's no reason to assume that specific Cell Jr. was holding back any more than the others while fighting Tenshinhan.
The Namek Genki Dama was just a Genki dama powered up by more energy, and, besides the point of formation, didn't show any other special proprieties. I really think some kind of explanation would be necessary in order to make assume that the Shin Kikoho had any special powers not shown by the Kikoho.
People also say that kikoho uses life force,however fucking manga purists forget,that manga never speaks
about kikoho using life force which means you can't use that excuse.
Shin-kikoho is a stronger version from kikoho like super kamehameha is a stronger version from
There is a relationship between kikoho and tenshinhan's power level or else he could kill nappa.
Plus Tenshinhan fired Shin-kikoho 4 times against cell.How many lifes has Tenshinhan?
4 lifes like in a videogame fucking dumbasses,lol.
I repeat again,the Kikoho has also something to do with the power-levels of the user, in this case Ten Shin Han,the attack become's more powerfull during the series and tenshinhan's kikoho against cell
it's just a more powerfull Kikoho, just like the Super Kamehameha is just a stronger version of the normal Kamehameha.
To give more examples, the Kikoho that Ten Shin Han uses against Nappa when he's almost dead is stronger than the ones that he did before because he had now a higher power-level
Ten Shin Han fires 4 Shin Kikoho's in total against Cell. Kikoho's who must have a considerable power and are stronger than before. Does this mean that he has now more lifes ( like if he was in a video-game) than before? No.
It's also power-level wise.
Well, tenshinhan stopped one of Gotenks Buu attacks (and it was suppose to kill gohan) so it was not one of his weaker blasts which means the Kikoho has also something to do with the power-levels of the user, in this case Ten Shin Han.
In The Buu Saga, Buu Gotenks also mentions that tenshinhan was very strong and look what I did to him. This is after he beats Ten Shin Han in one single kick (and yes he survives). Tenshinhan is referred as strong by Buu.
Daizenshuu 7's battle power chart, where the figure of SSJ Goku at 150 million comes from, says that it is impossible to calculate the battle powers of Goku and all the Z-warriors,(there is no exception made for tenshinhan and the others) after the battle with Freeza.
What daizenshuu and manga tell us about Shin kikoho?
Well,during the fight against Freeza Tenshinhan says:
"No need to worry goku wil win"
Tenshinhan-"We forgot about Kaioh ken.Seeing Goku's actual strenght he can endure the use of the maximum kaioh ken:
Daizenshuu 7 tell us that goku to use kaioh ken x 10 needs a power level of 3.000.000 and Tenshinhan knows it.
So if tenshinhan knows that the amount of ki necessary to use kaioh ken x 10 corresponds to 3 millions and if he uses Shin Kikoho who is stronger,obviously
Tenshinhan needs to have a power level above 3 millions.
Meaning that kaioh ken can kill you like shinkikoho if you don't have
a specific power level and it means that your body can't sustain that kind of power if you don't have a power level in the millions.
For the morons who say shinkikoho has no limits during the fight against buutenksccolo
Tenshinhan states that Boo's blast is too strong even for the Shin Ki-ko-ho. There is a limit to it, which kills the arguement that it multiplies his power by 7,000, lol. All the facts show that
Tenshinhan reached the millions, but the fact there's a limit to the attack (ki-ko-ho) says he was at that level.
Conclusion,Daizenshuu 7 and manga tell us that you need a minimal power level to perform
Techniques like kaioh ken or Shin Kikoho.
For the Kikoho...when it's introduced, Chaozu yells out he's about to use the Kikoho, and then Roshi calls it the "chi cannon" and since the universal term for the energy in the viz manga is "chi" not "ki" means that technique uses the same energy as every other attack.
And why wouldn't it? They would state something saying that he has some secret form of energy, but no such thing is stated. There's only two differences between the kikoho and the shin kikoho, it's not a new move, only a improved version in which he's able to release more than one blast before he falls, and he's able to control how much energy he puts into it. He basically took the technique and changed the rules of it. Yeah, he's that good. As the enemies got stronger, the heroes had to get stronger, thus why Tenshinhan and the others got way better results at the same training.
You just keep getting clapped down. Anything else you want me to destruct fucking Tenshinhan haters or ignorant dumb dragon ball fans???
Dumb statement:Also, the Tri-beam functions on a completely different level than other attacks. Cell had no damage despite the apparent effect the move was having on him.Answer:It made some dammage,but not heavy significative dammage which is different,besides that isn't exactly unseen. Even back in the 22nd Budokai, the Volleyball fist was able to throw Goku around, but it did no real lasting damage. or when goku blaste piccolo jr with a super kamehameha.
Cell was yelling and his entire momentum was negated by the attack. Just because he wasn't bleeding abundantly it doesn't mean it magically had no effect in spite of every other visual sign.
Dumb statement:For all we know the 'kill-level' of the move was no more than 300,000 (around 10x higher) but the 'impact-force' is the same no matter who it hits.
That's completely negated by the Nappa battle. The basic Kikoho had no special pushing force there.
Tenshinhan also was near-dead and only had one arm when he shot that blast
Then it should have done ZERO damage and knocked Nappa, instead it did SOME damage and didn't knock Nappa.
Plus I would also like to point out how Tien's Kikoho would have killed Kid Goku if he used it on him. That show us that it is a damaging attack not just a concussive force type attack.
Also, note the Kikoho usage on Nappa, he was not pushed back at all. It acted like a regular attack
Dumb statement:Humans have limits.
Answer:WTF?Are you fucking retarded???,lol
What's this talk about human limits? We've never seen, or heard anything about a human reaching their limits in the fucking manga,fucking manga purists,so you fail again dumbasses.
Uub shows us that humans aren't as limited as you think. It doesn't matter if he is the reincarnation of Majin Buu... because he has a human body, not a magical body like Buu had. Which means he has the same restrictions as other humans. Plus if non sayans had a pl limit which is not ever stated in dragon ball (it is exactly the opposite)how could tenshinhan's body sustain such a powerlevel when he performed shin kikoho against cell.
He can't regenerate, transform, absorb people, or do any other things like that.
Plus,what if goku can't go to super sayajin?
Could goku or vegeta beat Cell or even c-17 and c-18???That is the main question.
when we enter in the android saga we are talking about villains who are a lot more powerfull than 100% freeza.
Could base goku beat Freeza without ssj?
Not at that moment,but if he trains more applying all his knowledge taught by his former masters to beat him like all of them did for the android saga,the others Z-warriors can at least reach the million mark pretty easily,specially Tenshinhan who has alien blood
and was able to create a technique powerfull enough to hold semi-perfect cell.
Nothing is stated ever about the fact that they are humans so they can't become ultra powerfull,besides earlier in db or in the sayan saga
tenshinhan and the others were in the same range.Even if piccolo is 50.000.000 stronger than tenshinhan it is logical to think that a z- senshi has at least 5 or 10 millions,previously the difference between them was in a few hundred units.
I believe goku was a sayajin at the time and piccolo a namek.
Human blood made goten gohan and trunks stronger than pure sayajins.Why? Human blood is weak after all.
No one in the manga,anime or daizenshuu talks about human condition as a liability.
Actually Kame Sennin/Master roshi tell us another story in dragon ball.
During the 22 º world tournament goku and krillin are amazed with the fact that goku defeated so easily pamputte and all the other humans.
Logically both ask kame sennin.
How is that possible?
kame sennin says that panputte was strong for a human,but,goku,krillin,yamcha tenshinhan and chaoz are amazing warriors beyond human imagination,
which means they progress a lot faster than regular humans.
we are talking about prodigies here,not normal humans.
kame sennin needed 3 years to catch Karin the tower,goku did it in 3 days, before the 3 years training for the 22º world tournament which means Tenshinhan also had a power level above karin,because goku and tenshinhan were equals in that tournament so tenshinha took even less time to catch karin.
The Z Fighters like Krillin, Yamcha or tenshinhan were fighters who mastered Ki, and they were much more powerful than Saiyans of the past. And just think about this, the Saiyans lived on a planet with much higher gravity, so they should have had an advantage with that too.
Saiyans of the past trained their whole lives in higher gravity, yet the human Z Fighters and Tenshinhan surpassed them while training in Earth's atmosphere, and probably didn't train as much as they did,this lead us to the conclusion that the Z Fighters are prodigies themselves as well, like how Goku and Vegeta are prodigies of Saiyans.
But then look at the half-Saiyans. They're more powerful than full-blooded Saiyans and have more potential. It's just that they weren't given that in the anime since Goku was always the hero, with the exception of the Cell Saga. Even Vegeta himself stated that Saiyans breeding with Humans produces an offspring more powerful than the original. Then Nappa said to Vegeta that they should start repopulationg the Saiyan race, but Vegeta disliked the idea, saying he didn't want ingrate brats running around more powerful than he was.
With that said, where does the hybrids power come from? Why are they more powerful than full-blooded Saiyans? It has to do with their human side.
Tien's only fight post Saiyan Saga is against #17, and he got equally owned along with Trunks and Piccolo, meanwhile Krillin made no mention of his(or Trunk's) power during that fight either, as he was frozen with fear.
Actually , just the fact that Tenshinhan actually went to attack C-17 should be quite indictive of his power level, being in the millions or the hundreds of millions. Even the anime agrees or the movie bojack unbound where Tenshinhan forces Trunks to go to ssj to beat him.
Let's not forget that Toriyama was involved in that movie
Question: About the Shin ki ko ho:
1) Its the most powerful attack on the show
2) Semi Perfect Cell was caught off guard, which most of the time in DBZ means the attack is a lot more effective
3) Semi Perfect Cell was likely nowhere near his full power.
It isn't known how far it is from the actual power levels Akira thought of back in the 80's. Nevertheless, evidence points towards Tien being less than one million
Answer:1-The strongest attack was spirit bomb not shin kikoho,dumbass.
2-semi perfect cell was caught off-guard once what about the rest of the time.It is a fact that tenshinhan holds him and cell was furious and tried to escape,but he couldn't.
3-Semi Perfect Cell wasn't l nowhere near his full power when he koed c-16 with a single punch too.
And c-16 was more powerfull than c-17 and Piccolo.
Now tell me fucking dumbass,if Kikoho does use lifeforce you need to explain to me why Vegeta's explosion did not annilate buu and half the fucking universe,lol.Vegeta's explosion used to destroy fat buu is more powerful than the Kikoho. He used all his power in one go, even the Kikoho required 4 shots to knock Tien out. Characters can faint or whatever from using up the last of their ki in a crappy blast. IF Kikoho uses life force, then Vegeta's attack should be say, 50,000x or more stronger than himself. Where did I get that number? Kikoho, 10,000x stronger than self, four shots to ko Tien. Final blast used all the power in one shot, and so should be at least 5x stronger than that.
Fucking retarded statement: SSJ2 Vegeta was more than 10,000x stronger than Tien...obviously his attack is going to be more powerful. And quit comparing the attacks goddammit.
Vegeta's Final Explosion uses ki, it releases an attack around 3x stronger than himself.
Tien's Neo Ki Ko Ho uses his life force, which has nothing to do with his power level. Depending on how much he uses at once is how much power it has. When he used it on Cell he used less life force since that was all he needed. When he used it on Super Buutenks's attack, he used more, but since he only did it once it didn't kill him.
Answer:Fucking dumbass if you refuse to use daizenshuu and you only accept the manga as an evidence,tell me where the fuck it is stated in manga that kikoho uses life force fucking retard?
For the last time how many lifes has tenshinhan?
Four lifes like in a fucking videogame,because he used shin kikoho 4 times,lol.
It is hillarious sometimes when i see people giivng the Neo tri beam a 1000X multiplier with that multiplier Tenshinhan body would be destroyed in a second if he was weak like some people tend to put him and daizenshuu tell us this when kaioken is explained.
Lets say Krillin was PL:100 and he trained for 5 years, receiving a x2 increase each year. Using the previous incorrect logic, we would detirmine him to increase by x10 in 5 years.
However, what would actually happen is this.
Krillin(End of Y1):200
Krillin(End of Y2):400
Krillin(End of Y3):800
Krillin(End of Y4):1600
Krillin(End of Y5):3200
He would double his strength each year, rather than by x10 in 5 years.
So heres where it coincides with my theory of Tienitude.
So here is what I did, I went and calculated the exact % increase in PL per day, for both training with King Kai, and a x1.5 per year increase. (You can prove the exactness using the equation down the bottom, on your own home calculator)
270 days spent training
Compared to Goku, he was there 1.6875x longer
Goku recieved an 19.23x increase in 158 days.
I have calculated that to be a +0.018889% increase per day
September 9 763 AD
Tien Arrives back from King Kai
If 1.5x increase per 365 days
Calculated to + 1.001111% per day August 764
2 Years, 9 Months, 20 days
Calculated to + 1.001111% per day Tien=1,281,510
May 20 767 AD
Tien Kikoho's Cell
Calculated to + 1.001111% per day Tien=22,989,422
May 8 774 AD
Tien Kikoho's Buu's attack
Started September 14 749
Ended May 6 750
Goku:10-124, thats a 12x in 240 days
Started May 12 750
Ended May 15 750
Goku:124-157, thats a a 24% increase in 3 days.
Kami(+6 months of individual training)
Started Sometime in March(Let's say March 15 for averageness) 750
Ended November 3 750
Time:150 days with Kami, 78 on own
Tien:250-1830, 732% increase in 228 days
Yamcha:174-1400(?) ,804% increase in 228 days
Krillin:206-1600(thats a guess, based that he is stronger than Yamcha and weaker than Tien, I cannot remember proper level) 770% increase in 228 days
And King Kai in an effing God. He is far superior to Kami and Co. 2000% increase in half a year.
As for a x6 in three years training on own, Piccolo managed a x8.75 in 150 days solitary, 138 days with Gohan(who is much weaker, and would actually slow him down for most if not all of that)
All the evidence points towards Tien being a lot more than one million.
Look at the bojack movie, daizenshuu and even some facts from the manga, even math proves he was beyond 1 million.
In the original japanese movie.Tenshinhan said "trunks you don't need to hold back against me"
Question:After king kai z-warriors need gravity to improve?
Answer:NO,Raditz, a "Top Class Warrior", as a Saiyan trained in x10 gravity his whole life, and where did it get him? Power Level above "1200" according to the manga.
Is there a quote somewhere in the manga,daizenshuu or anime that Gravity training is the only way to increase your power once you hit the 10,000's?10x gravity is good training, Tenshinhan got a huge boost from that, bigger than Goku's, just like he got a WAY bigger boost than Goku from his training with Kami. Anyhow, training under anything less then times gravity would be ineffective correct? That's common sense, BUT common sense is thrown out the window when Goku and the others train for the androids on Earth under normal gravity, and get MUCH stronger by the time the androids come,
everyone increases faster and faster regardless how they train,that is the logic in dragon ball proved by what happened in the training for the sayans.Plus Vegeta training in 300 gravity for 3 years and then in just a few months in the ROSAT(hyperbolic chamber) he got an even greater boost....
Toriyama didn't care about that. He just put the characters at certain levels when he needed them.
Anyway,everyone knows about gravity,these guys are smart enough to train in different ways.
They always trained in the earth before and the gains were always amazing,besides their progression changes.
In dbz the power increase becomes faster and faster regardless how they train.
Goten's power level was close to trunks power level without gravity.
Goku ignored gravity after namek.And goku is a smart fighter.
Fanboys who use the gravity as an excuse are fucking retarded,let's add the fact that goku didn't use gravity anymore after namek or that goten was close to trunks and trunks trained on gravity.
The Piccolo improvement for the android saga disproves that Gravity is the main influence on Power Gain.
Actually in the past against sayans all the Z-warriors managed to made such incredible progresses,the same happens
for the android saga,because everytime,Z-warriors train to a big battle,their pl's increase a lot.
Just so no one uses that excuse about gravity. Tien can split form, and train against himself. Don't underestimate Training against an equal partner.
About the gravity chamber It is the same gravity chamber who didn't help much trunks to beat goten or helped vegeta to surpass goku?
I guess not dumbasses.
As for +50% per year, let me explain it more. To be fully honest, I can see Tien quintupling his power in a year. Tien can increase by x5 in one year"
Tien training in 1x gravity does not mean Zero increase. We don't know what he does for training, perhaps he does push ups with a 1 tonne boulder on his back. Now, lets say he does that in a grav chamber. If he wants more increase, he sets gravity to x2, and then its as if he is lifting a 2 ton boulder. In 1x gravity, he could simply lift 2 boulders at once, or a 2 ton boulder. He could tie 10 ton weights to his arms and legs and run/fight Chaotzu or Clones with these attached to him. When he maxes out from that, double the weight, or split into eight Tiens instead of four and keep the same weight. Get it?
It makes sense, except for the last part. Splitting into different Tenshinans wouldn't provide gain the way your thinking of it. Not because of my own knowledge or anything, but because of a simple manga fact: Splitting himself divides the strength by the number of clones created.
When Goku fought him, he said there are two weak-spots:
-They were all attacking in the same way. Goku used this to his advantage when they used the eye-lazer simultaneously. The solar-flare blinded them all because they were all looking the same way.
-It divides up the power-level. Thus, making him weaker. Goku did not flat out state this weakness in the technique but he implied it by defeating the clones effortlessly with one or two punches each. And it makes sense: If his power-level is 200 and he makes 4 clones, each clone will only have a pl of 50.
So if Tenshinhan were to try and make gain, as far as strength is concerned, he'd need to lift a boulder/whatever that is that clone's limit. Over time, each clone would surpass it's limits until they are as strong as himself in normal form. Not only that, but Tenshinhan would reap the benefits of EACH clone's training when he puts himself back together. Have you ever watched Naruto...? The main character can use a similar attack dubbed "Kage Bunshin No Jutsu" (which means art of the doppleganger. A doppleganger is like an exact double of yourself). Anyway, Naruto's sensei told him that if he used the jutsu to split into two of himelf, and sent the other one to go do some push-ups, then when the clone came back and he recombined he'd gain that clone's experience. In other words, if that clone saw a strange bird, when it came back Naruto would know about the bird and could even recall it as if he himself experienced it.
We don't know exactly how they "train" as the series becomes more and more complicated. The term itself is used in a very broad sense just to let the reader know they were imrpoving themselves. But the fact their power-level increases each time proves they had to be doing some strength-enhancment (not steroids, lol). And we clearly saw Goku doing push-ups, running laps, and doing stretches in the gavity room; alongside practicing his forms and priming his body to get used to the gravity.
Exactly. With one addition. Because each of the clones is weaker than Tien, they won't have hit that theoretical "This is how strong you can get without multiple gravities thing". Or if they do, just split again until there are 400 Tiens and then they all reach the "maximum" you could achieve in x1 gravity. I love this, people say "Oh but the clones are weaker" and I say "Exactly"A fighter needs to find tougher training eventually.
I can curl 50-lb dumbells for ten reps three times. In about a month or so, I get used to the weight. Now, if someone were to claim "you would no longer benefit from it" then they'd be an idiot. I AM benefiting from it. But eventually, it will no longer provide gain.
So what would, theoretically, me curling only 50-lbs for th rest of my life do for me...? Well, it'll keep me in shape. If I stop lifting weights, I will begin to loose muscle-mass. Weight-lifting divides the cells and multiplies them to make them bulky and lean. So if I consistently use the same pattern, with the same weight, it WILL continue making cells divide. Does that make sense...?
In other words, if Tenshinhan trains at an average rate of 1.5x per year, the mutliplyer isn't going to go down. It'll stay pretty much the same. But if he gets lazy of course it will decrease. If he pushes himself, it'll get higher. But here's the thing: If he keeps training the same way never pushing himself and never getting lazy, it [the multiplyer] won't get that much higher.
Let's use exercise for another analogy. My usual training method is to do push-ups in sets of 50 until I get to 200; sometimes 300. Now, there are many ways to do a push-up. I can do knuckles, put hands right beneath my body, or spread them out wide so that it takes longer (among other methods).
Let's say I like doing flat-handed push-ups where my arms are right beneath my abdomen and not spread out. This method will strengthen the biceps and the triceps at the same time. If I do 200 a day for 3 months I'll probably have really developed muscles. But again: If I don't push myself or change my method I won't get much gain; I'll simply stay in shape. If I want to push myself, why not simply increase the number to 400??? I'm bound to get twice as strong in the same amount of time. And if I want to improve myself even more, I should try out new methods. An exercise that develops my biceps and triceps is great, but let's face it, that's all it does. How about trying an exercise that develops a different area of the body...? So I start doing wide-push-ups and that'll build up my chest and arm-pits. Or I could do a totally different exercise like sit-ups. So the message I'm sending is "expand your horizon" so to speak.
This has lots to do with the current discussion. Goku knew the Saiyajins were going to be even stronger than Radditz. He and Piccolo won by the skin of their teeth. In fact, they had to work togethor and Goku died in the process. So if he was getting powned by a Saiyajin, who is much weaker than his comrade, and there are TWO comrades well...it's pretty clear doing the same old work-out won't cut it; especially if you only have a year.
Goku could have benefited greatly training with Piccolo and Gohan but...he was dead. So Kami-Sama was wise to send him to Kaio and train the Z-fighters as back-up. Goku did two things going to Kaio's:
1-He expanded his horizon and tried something different.
2-He pushed himself.
Sometimes even pushing yourself isn't enough. Likewise, trying so many different things can actually work against you if you aren't getting any gain from it. Both are great seperately but provide the best results together. So Goku trained far harder than he ever had and he tried something new.
Tenshinhan was stated to train both harder and more innovatively than Goku (he said "I'll put my own spin on things"). Not only that, he had several sparring partners AND he was there longer. So going with that, how can anyone be stupid enough to think his power level increased by "half of Goku's"?! And how can you say Tenshinhan did not surpass 8,000??? People...seriously. That defies all logic; In real life, and in DBZ itself.
Now,i need to speak about Tenshinhan's training for the cell saga.Piccolo has proven that he can increase his strength by 8.75x in one year. Obviously,Tenshinhan increased at least four or five times per year by comparison.
Because he was so close to Piccolo in the sayan saga.
Well you have to use dragon ball logic,if he came from 250 to 1830 in a few months.
And picccolo came from 1 million to 150.000.000, so it makes all the sense that tenshinhan at least had a pl of 11.000.000,probably much more between 30-60 millions.
Piccolo is over 1,000,000 after merging with Nail, since he bested second form Freeza, who's battle power was said to be "over 1,000,000." Third form Freeza is considerably stronger than that, as is his initial level of power when he reaches his fourth form. Vegeta is the only one who can see Freeza's movements when he powers up after being healed by Dende, so I'd put him at 2,000,000 at the very minimum.
Now, Freeza kills Vegeta with no effort at all, so he has to be at least at 3,000,000 at this point. When Goku is powered up after being healed in the healing tank, he is stated to be fighting evenly with Freeza. So, Goku's base level of 3,000,000 given in the Daizenshuu isn't a stretch at all.
From there, it's simple. Going by these rough calculations, Goku's Kaiô-Ken x20 attack would give him a battle power of about 60,000,000, as stated in the Daizenshuu. Freeza easily blocks Goku's Kaiô-Ken x20-enhanced Kamehameha with one hand, only saying that "That really hurt!!" This means that Freeza at 50% power would have to be over 60,000,000, meaning that at 100% power, he'd have to be over 120,000,000.
Goku's Super Saiyan reading of 150,000,000, therefore, is probably pretty spot-on. Meaning Piccolo, who could defeat a person somewhere near Super Saiyan Goku's level (who, at this point, is much stronger from his training), would have to have a battle power of at least 100,000,000 after his training.
This is reinforced by a statement by Kuririn when piccolo owns c-20:
"H-he's strong...! What kind of training did Piccolo do...? H-he's not even a Super Saiyan..."
Conclusion the same story repeats again like in the sayan saga,all the Z-senshi make awesome progresses,becuase they have an important battle.
Dumb retarded statement:I know someone will bring up Krillin's statement - it's invalid. Piccolo was nowhere near a Super Saiyan strength, as the fight with Nos. 18 and 17 shows. Piccolo is knocked out with one hit from #17, while Vegeta fights evenly with #18 until he begins to wear out.
How well did Trunks do against #17? They really didn't fight evenly. As soon as they both decided to take it seriously Vegeta gets his ass kicked. If anything he was able to tread water for awhile.
Who's to say that Piccolo isn't as strong as a Super Saiyan? Sure he is taken out by #17 in two hits, but Vegeta wouldn't have done any better. Number 18 was playing with Vegeta and testing his limits. Number 17 wasn't playing around. Besides, Super Saiyan Trunks was taken out with two hits as well. Hell, Super Saiyan Trunks took less of a blow than Piccolo and was rendered unconscious. From that fight it looks like Piccolo is as strong as Super Saiyan Trunks. He might even be a little stronger.
The thing is, because no one commented on it, all we know is that it wasn't amazing like Piccolo or the SSJ's. It could be Goku/Vegeta 300m, Piccolo 220m, Tien 11m Krillin 5m Yamcha 3m, which would make perfect sense as far as the PL comments go.
Dumb retarded atatement:Piccolo gained so much power likely because he did training with Goku and Gohan together during the 3 years before the Android Saga(at least that's what I remember reading, I'll have to check that later) and sparring with a SSJ>>>>sparring with chaotzu.It's actually shown in the manga,Piccolo sparring with Goku ssj.
Answer:How can you be so fucking retarded???
Tenshinhan can spar against himself,dumbass,so forget the chaoz thing.
Tenshinhan can use the 4 clone technique to spar,it is stated, actually it is logical and it helps.
If tenshinhan has a pl of 100.000 and he splits in 4 each tenshinhan will have 25.000.
If chaoz has 25.000 he can spar with him,spar against himself and use the fourth clone to meditate.
About that manga page who shows Piccolo and gohan training against ssj goku:
Wrong again fucking dumbass,that page show us gohan and piccolo atacking goku ssj,but it is only a front page.
And Piccolo could not spar with a ssj dumbass, base goku was stronger than piccolo
in namek ,how could piccolo spar with a ssj?Piccolo never managed to surpass base goku before,but suddenly he can spar with a ssj who is 50 stronger than base goku.
What about gohan,he is in that picture too.
Gohan after 3 years training for the cell saga couldn't become a ssj which means gohan was weaker than base goku in namek who fought against freeza.
So how the fuck can gohan spar with a ssj fucking dumbass?Statement-Piccolo weaker than base goku? Maybe at first, but by the android saga Piccolo>>>>>>Base Goku.
Answer:It is not stated dumbass,however even if piccolo became stronger than base goku how the fuck can he spar with a ssj who is 50 times stronger than base goku.
Piccolo was stated to be training "fiercely" before Freeza arrived. His power level would be above his power when he fought Freeza. Piccolo could've lost many battles against SSJ Goku, but his power would still continue to increase.
Stated where?In your ass???
Everybody trained fiercely at the time.
According to dumbasses to train without sparring partner or gravity no gains.
Well piccolo trained alone.
However, piccolo and all the others were impressed with goku's improvements when he came back to the earth
and made a demonstrattion against Trunks and that is a stated fact in the manga,dumbass.
Base piccolo could not compete with a ssj.Ssj increases your pl 50 times.
Piccolo never surpassed base goku before.Base goku in namek was more powerfull than piccolo how can piccolo surpass him before those 3 years?
as the characters progress their power grows higher, faster. Example when they were in the Saiyan saga they went from hundreds to thousands,later thousands to millions and the logic is that so the difference between humans/tien and super namek piccolo/sayans is still in the millions which is a lot,but all of them are in the millions. Tenshinhan went from 250(manga) to 1830 in just a year from earth training, though he had been around for 20 years he only got around 350 (and piccolo 408),
and he'd been training a lot, now in just a year he excelled to near 2,000 even goku a sayan only improved in 3 years 70 units he came up from 260 to 330 in 23 BT,later against nappa krillin had 1.083 and piccolo 1220 which proves they improve in the same pace,
when some people says humans or a semi-human like tien couln't surpass ginew it makes me laugh because it is a wrong assumption, in the end all of them were a lot stronger than freezer.
So there's no reason he couldnt go from 1,830 to 68,000 and beat the ginew force especially with Kaio's training. It wouldnt be that hard to achieve for Tenshinhan yamcha or krillin in the same training conditions.
Some guys prefer ignore the fact that as DBZ continues peoples power gets higher and higher A LOT faster. So evidently they can increase their strength by a good ways still.. EVERYone increases faster, regardless of how the train.When one person trains a certain way the rest do it and get a huge increase too. Like Goku a sayan using the RoSaT as a kid for like 1 month and getting almost nothing , then using it full a year and increasing by the millions. So when some fans make the WRONG ASSUMPTION how the humans or an alien descent like tien couldn't have powerlevels in the millions they are wrong and can't understand DB increase power logic.All of this reinforced by the fact that there aren't powerlevels after the freeza saga,in fact,
Daizenshuu 7's battle power chart, where the figure of SSJ Goku at 150 million comes from, says that it is impossible to calculate the battle powers of Goku and all the Z-warriors after the battle with Freeza.There is no exception made for tenshinhan and the humans who fight in the android saga.
After getting bludgeoned for the umpteenth time this is all you have????? You need sleep. Rest and recuperate, you've been taken apart....again. You should be used to it by now.Owned !!!!!