quarta-feira, 29 de outubro de 2008

Tenshinhan versus Krillin/ Who is stronger?

Tenshinhan versus Krillin/ Who is stronger?




















This scan from the Daizenshuu states that Tenshinhan descends from an alien race,The Mitsume Jins or Three Eyes . No human has been shown to have 3 eyes, no human has been shown to grow an extra set of arms and no human has been shown to have the ability to make living, breathing clones. There's no other being we know of that could do that, not even Piccolo. Only Tenshinhan has those special abilities. Also take note of Roshi's reaction to Ten growing those arms.



































You can tell that in all his years he's never seen anything like it before, he was shocked, confused and seemed horrified,, even Piccolo was astonished when he saw Tenshinhan's four bodies another characteristic who comes from his alien ancestors.
Here is the scan:
























Tenshinhan is an hybrid of his ancient ancestors and the human race, or he is of pure descendant from his alien ancestors. Anyway,we DO know that he is not a pure human. Saying otherwise would be an assumption and would be contradicted by manga proof and by the official Dragon Ball information database, the Daizenshuu.. Also, in the game 'Dragon Ball Z Tenkaichi Budokai' there is a wealth of very accurate information in bios of all the characters. Tenshinhan's states the following -

"As a descendant of aliens, his body possesses unique characteristics which he demonstrates often in the Dragon Ball series, such as the ability to split himself into four separate fighters or sprout extra arms from his shoulders- unthinkable behavior as far as normal Earthlings are concerned."


Tenshinhan's Heavenly Training
This scan shows that all the fighters want training tougher than what Goku received.




























This scan shows that even at a much higher power levels, the gravity still affects them.

































This scan is about Tenshinhan's and Piccolo's extreme will to train.






















Tenshinhan also has a little speech to himself about how he will train. He's very serious about this training and he's training to defeat Goku once again. Thus meaning he would train his hardest in better training conditions than what Goku received. They are all stronger, so of course North Kaio would give them stronger training conditions. This scan shows the results of Piccolo's training, even thought he trained for a short amount of time. Read Nail's dialogue.
































In only 6 days Piccolo's power surpassed Nail who had a power level of 42.000.
Some love to make shit up saying that nail was comparing Piccolo with other Namekian warriors
just,because they can't stand the fact that Tenshinhan alongside with Piccolo became very powerful in just 6 days ignoring the fact that 6 days on Kaiô-sama's planet was the equivalent to thousands of years of training on earth.
Again,
158 days on Kaiô-sama's planet= thousands of years on earth.
So Tenshinhan waited for the Dragonballs to recharge, twice. So, he spent 266 days on Kaiô's planet, training. If 158=3,000 years, 266=5,050 years which means more training +more years=more power and the fact that everyone in dbz increases a lot faster than before. Tenshinhan trained on this awesome planet for 266 days(more than 6 months) after doing a lot more in 6 months on earth than Goku in 8 full years of Namek training system.He also had tougher training with Kaio for 266 days, so his training was totally different from Goku's and not comparable.
So just imagine what he did while receiving more intense training than the Saiyan and staying longer than Goku in that planet.
Tenshinhan can make up any special training routines that would make a significant difference supported by the fact that Tenshinhan
outrights states that he will adapt Kaio's training to go along with his own training making him incredibly strong in the several millions.



Considering Nail didn't ever bring anything about Namekian heritage or any other Nameks into the equation as he talked to Piccolo, it's a HUGE and retarded assumption to think he's comparing his battle power to them. Piccolo had to be darn powerful to impress nail. With orginal Japanese words such as:
"I…I’m astonished…I d…don’t know how you trained, but you’ve acquired an unbelievable amount of power…."
...I highly doubt a piccolo under 30,000 would be "unbelievable" to nail considering he's sensed powers over 40K and even fought freeza himself. Lets not forget that piccolo was most likely relaxed and lets not forget he had weighted clothes on when nail made his remark.
Obviously, Piccolo was even stronger then Nail just by training with kaio-sama for a week. Yep yep!


Dumb assumption:Also, I don't believe Nail and the other namekians can sense chi as good as the Z Warriors can.

Nail should've felt Freeza's overwhelming power, but he thought he stood somewhat of a chance against him, and was actually shocked when his attacks had no effect.

Answer:Freeza can control his battle power remember? And when krillin was crapping his pants at freeza's battle power when he first saw him, his ki was as little as 1.5K. Of course he'd crap his pants. Nail however is a whopping 42K. Not to mention, nail's nonchalance seems to be part of his character.

Another dumb statement:The same goes for one of the three namekians who fought Freeza's henchmen. He attacked Dodoria with a chi blast, thinking it killed him, then was shocked when the dust settled and Dodoria was unharmed. That also needs to be taken into account when Nail's statement about Piccolo's power comes up.

Answer:Ok fucking dumbass,i guess since Vegeta, gohan and krillin thought vegeta actually killed recooome until the dust settled means they can't sense ki well either...you just got owned non-stop.

Kaio said his training would be more difficult than what he gave to Goku--and since Piccolo was much stronger than Goku upon arriving, he just trained unbelievably hard in whatever regimen Kaio established for them.

Nail says Piccolo gained unbelievable power and that already places him above Nail. Since Nail's been living some of his life with a power of 42K, having a power of 42K or less is obviously "believable" to him.

It's the same way with Post Rosat Gotenks when compared to his Pre RoSaT self. Or Future Trunks being implied to get over 50x stronger in three years with no partners and regular Earth conditions.
Trunks claims after 3 years has gone he is stronger than Gohan, so Trunks in base and SSJ have become more than 50x stronger during those 3 years.



Piccolo knows he's much stronger and Nail greatly compliments his power. Notice Nail's quote: "You have an astonishing amount of power." This shows that North Kaio is indeed training them harder than ever like Kami did on earth when Tenshinhan in 6 months
accomplished more than goku in 8 years of namek training system.
Tenshinhan came from 250 to near 2000 in just 6 months,instead goku in 8 years only managed to achieve 416,the same happens om Kaiô planet even if goku only managed to reach 8.000 Piccolo in 6 days=decades in kaiô planet surpassed 42.000 using some math and considering that
158 days on Kaiô-sama's planet= thousands of years on earth,here is the scan:


































Their training doesn't have to be shown for us to know that it's happening, we know that North Kaio is training them harder than Goku just by that scan. North Kaio wouldn't have announced that they wanted to train harder and then just not let it happen,the same already happened when Kami-sama trained them.
Especially with Piccolo and Tenshinhan around. Tenshinhan stayed longer than what Goku did, he always had sparring partners which in every case is good, he was trained harder by North Kaio, and he has an extreme will to train his hardest and do his best because he's training to defeat Goku. Now Goku trained with Kami and Popo for three years and applied the namek training system in the next 5 years,8 years of namek superior training system.
Tenshinhan trained with them for less than 6 months, yet he received a MUCH bigger boost in power. As the enemies kept getting stronger everyone gets stronger faster and faster than ever, Toriyama had to make the heroes get stronger. Tenshinhan received an huge boost in power from his training with North Kaio as other allies and enemies were getting stronger by every chapter.

Again!
In the original manga,on Kaio's planet Piccolo is shown meditating,Tenshinhan is throwing punches and Yamcha is shown chasing Bubbles which means Piccolo and Tenshinhan already caught bubbles and gregory and increased their speed and power.
So, according to Toriyama, Tenshinhan and Piccolo are way above Yamcha unlike the anime where we can see Tenshinhan, Yamcha and Chaozu trying to catch Bubbles at the same time.
Here is the image:
























In this image everyone can see that Tenshinhan and Piccolo were so strong that they caught Bubbles and Gregory pretty easily,only Yamcha and Chaozu had trouble to catch them.
Tenshinhan and Piccolo were in another level,relatively close to each other at this point in the manga.

Question?How could piccolo and the others improve so much from 6 days of training and beat the ginew force?


Answer:Everytime Z-heroes train to fight they gain huge boosts.
Ex:goku trained 8 years under kami training system with weights and in dragon ball he only managed to come from 260 to 416 even after 1 month in the hiperbolic chamber,however,in a few months,more precisely 6 months(half of the time Tenshinhan and the others trained with Kami without weights,what leave us with just 3 months of weight training) Tenshinhan, Piccolo and the others came from the low hundreds,206;250;408 to near 2.000.

This is stated in the manga and 158 days on Kaiô-sama's planet= more or less to 3,000 years of training on Earth.
Tenshinhan waited for the Dragonball's to recharge, twice. So, he spent 266 days on Kaiô's planet, training.
If 158=3,000 years, 266=5,050 years.
Some scumbags will say that "goku a sayajin only managed to achieve 8.000 before.

Yes,but,previously Goku, a fucking sayajin, after 8 years of Namek training system on Earth gravity 1 and 1 month in the hiperbolic chamber(room of spirit and time) only managed to improve a few hundreds(260 to 416),so if you apply the same principle,
now we have Goku training during 6 days on a gravity chamber under 100,but previously he trained under 10 g and all the others under 1 g,
therefore the difference in gravity between Goku and others still remains the same,more precisely 10 times higher.

So,Goku is training again under a gravity 10 times superior to his friends,but this time Goku reaches 90.000 and his friends are above 50.000.
That's the reason why Nail was impressed with Piccolo's power.
In the sayajin saga where the difference in gravity is the same we have Goku with 8.000 and the others around 2.000.
According to their retarded logic.Goku should have 40.000 after his training with Kaioh-Sama(king Kai).

A fucking 6.000 difference.
After 6 days we have a bigger difference between Goku and the others,but certainly they were above 50.000 as stated by Nail,the pattern is the same.Then we have the retarded excuse about sayajin zenkais,however,zenkais are inconsistent in the manga,sometimes Vegeta should have been stronger than Goku and vice-versa but it didn't happen.

Plus,6 days in king kai's planet was the equivalent to thousands of years of training on earth which means that if they improved more than 1 thousand units in a few months, now in more time(6 days on king kai planet correspond to decades),the Z- heroes will improve in thousands,that's why z-warriors
achieved power levels above Nail.Do you maggots understand?
In dbz power levels grow faster and faster for everyone(all dbz heroes) regardless how they train.

The main Z warriors are relatively strong to be useful in the different arcs.





Tenshinhan's Android Training


He returned to the mountains to train with Chiaotzu while Kuririn trained by himself at Kame House.Tenshinhan trained hard for the Androids whilst Krillin trained moderately at best. So that means Tien would have gotten a much higher % increase than Krillin.Tenshinhan trained very hard, he was shown to be looking forward to testing his power before those 3 years of training.
By contrast, IIRC Krillin and Yamcha were nervous, and Krillin said he was going to train at his own pace with Master Roshi. If anyone can delude himselfself into thinking Tenshinhan trained less than Krillin from that, then fine.

So let's compare some things. Tenshinhan's persona about training is much more serious than Kuririn's, that's just a fact. Like stated before, Tenshinhan trained with a partner for three years while Kuririn trained by himself. Being in the mountains, there's no distractions from training. Tenshinhan trained, ate, slept, woke up and trained again. There's no way that Chiaotzu could spar with Tenshinhan right? Wrong. Gohan sparred with Piccolo and Goku during the three years of training. There's many ways that he could have helped Tenshinhan with his psychic abilities anyhow and tenshinhan could use his clones to fight against himself.

All the fighters besides Vegeta were training regularly on Earth during this saga. Now why would they train like that if regular Earthly training didn't affect them? Surely if the 10x gravity on Kaio's planet barely affected Tenshinhan anymore, then regular Earth training wouldn't have any affect at all.
That’s to counter retards saying that Tenshinhan couldn’t have received much good from his training with North Kaio because he was too strong for the gravity. Yet we see the results of their training. Gohan turned SSj pretty quickly in the ROSAT, thus meaning his base power should have improved very significantly from his Earthly training with Piccolo and Goku. Piccolo could take on Gero by himself, surprising nearly everyone achiving more than 100 millions during those 3 years , SSj Goku was strong as hell, and Tenshinhan held down Cell with his ki. Here's the only manga scan of Tenshinhan training with a special outfit with massive weights during that training.


































The Android Threat



Seeing that Tenshinhan and the others showed up to fight beings that where so much powerful than Freeza shows that they were in the millions specially,because they felt Freeza’s suppressed level and afterwards Piccolo told them to not show up if they couldn’t become strong enough and that is the reason why Tenshinhan left Chaozu behind saying that he wasn't strong enough to a battle like this. He came to the decision that Chaozu "wouldn't be able to keep up" with the upcoming battle.
All of that shows that Tenshinhan was at a respectable enough level to think he can keep up. Clearly over 1 million!!!!!!!!!!! Or does he think he can keep up without even finishing the 100,000 range? lol
Plus,Gohan is put in the same category (None of you can beat the Android 20) as Tenshinhan by Piccolo. The only one worth mentioning is Super Saiyan Goku.
A power above 100% Freeza.
Tenshinhan can make up any special training routines that would make a significant difference supported by the fact that Tenshinhan
outrights states that he will adapt Kaio's training to go along with his own training making him incredibly strong in the several millions.
Here you can see Piccolo's warning to Tenshinhan,Krillin and Yamcha:























Akira Toriyama uses his wisest member Piccolo to tell us that Tenshinhan,Yamcha and Krillin would get to the millions during those 3 years of training,ie,the ones who couldn't reach a battle power in the millions shouldn't show up.
They showed up to fight specially Tenshinhan.
Obviously, anyone out of the millions or bellow Freeza's supressed battle power who was at least above 3 millions would get in the way.

Its just for the series to retain any form of logicality, he needs to be in the low millions. An attack being x500 is farfetched, but no more than the SSJ2 multiplier on many lists. But an attack being x30,000... anyone who says Tien is in the low hundred thousands, clearly hasn't got their head around the utter stupidity of this multiplier. I mean my god, its higher than most Potara and SSJ3 put together, and in many cases x10 that.
Tenshinhan was ready to fight with Goku & Piccolo right in the city, and it would be absurd to even consider he's not flirting with at least a Battle Power over a million in a fight with guys stated to "make Freeza seem like a weakling", as Goku puts it.
Tenshinhan went from being outclassed by Old Daimao, to being equal to a weighted Goku after training under Kami/Popo for 3 yrs, who was quite a bit stronger than Young Daimao. Tenshinhan can increase a whole lot, easily. He's not restricted to anything.

Tenshinhan didn't go into the room of spirit and time, because he KNEW his power was useless compared to the others by that point.Actually,he said that he couldn't surpass Perfect Cell.
This didn't stop him from training and showing up for the Androids after feeling Freeza's supressed power level who was certainly above 3 millions.

The fact of the matter here is that Goku picked both Tenshinhan and Piccolo over Kuririn to help him with the androids. Yamcha is nearly dead and the two androids the group trained so hard for are right in front of them. They trained their asses off because of these two threats, so wouldn't it be common sense for Goku to pick the two strongest to stay with him just in case? Especially after hearing how strong they are from Trunks, and the fact that Goku couldn't sense how strong they actually were? Of course. Not only was Tenshinhan closer to Yamcha, but he was standing right next to Goku. So why is Goku going to turn and yell over at Kuririn to take Yamcha back? This scan shows it.

































Proof of Tenshinhan's strength can be seen with his shin kikoho. That's the power of his chi raining down on Cell. Also, I'd like to show you these two scans for multiple reasons. First the scans:



























































First off, look at their stances in the first scan. They were all ready to fight the androids. This supports my assumption that Goku would have picked the two strongest fighters to stay, I mean...Isn't it common sense? Even if Goku didn't want them to fight, he'd want the strongest backup. Goku couldn't have known if the androids were going to attack them right there or not, thus why he picked the strongest to stay behind. The second scan shows Tenshinhan's new strength. Not only did he see Gero's attack coming at him, but he also dodged it with Goku. I'm not saying he was around base Goku's strength, but he has to be pretty strong to do those things. Now…Trunks, Tenshinhan and Kuririn arrive where Piccolo is after his skirmish with Imperfect Cell. A plan is made, one pair goes after Cell, while the other pair find Gero's lab with pupil Cell and destroys that. Trunks leads the team that will search for the lab because he knows where it is, and knows what's going on in this situation, and it's his sole duty to stop the threat of Cell in this timeline. Piccolo leads the team that will try to find Imperfect Cell. Piccolo has to pick between Tenshinhan and Kuririn. He'd pick the better, stronger choice to help him track down Cell, right? Of course he would. Cell is extremely strong and dangerous. Again, that seems like common sense to me. Well, anyways...Do you remember who Piccolo picked?












Tenshinhan that's right
!

Remember that Krillin gets 1hit KO'd VS Nappa, Tien gets his arm cut off by one hit,but he is able to get up by himself . They both failed equally hard. However,this also shows how Krillin was scared to fight the Androids, not intelligently holding back to use Senzu's or whatever that nonsense was.


Oh yeah, now look at this scan:






























Tenshinhan wanted to help pretty badly, doesn't it? The reason he didn't go into the ROSAT near the end of the android saga saga was because only the Saiyans had a chance against Perfect Cell. He STILL wouldn't have been able to help in any way even if he went in the ROSAT, thus why he didn't. He knew that the Saiyans were the only chance, and he knew that he would die anyways if they failed. There was no need for him to train for this final battle with Cell. That however does not mean he quit training for the rest of his life. That is an absurd thought,because Tenshinhan's bio in daizenshuu 7 tell us that tenshinhan trained and dedicated his life to train and become stronger and stronger.




About the ShinKikoho:
Akira Toriyama:"When it comes to battle, the most important thing is KI SIZE, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe"

KIKOHO HAS ALL THESE THINGS
If it doesn't come from Tenshinhan's ki, then where does it come from? There is no external source for any of these ki attacks
The fact is, Kikouhou is focusing your ki directly into your hands, and releasing it. To use all of your ki would kill you (as seen in the Nappa battle), but Tenshinhan is able to control it so that he doesn't use up 100%, especially come Shinkikouhou. That's why it's dangerous because of its power; "its power" is caused by the fact that it uses up a great deal of ki, and your ki is your spirit force/etc.
Kamehameha is not shown to be capable of using up such large fractions of the user's ki, and thusly does not do as much proportional damage.
It is entirely feasible that one of his Kikouhou could be more powerful than a single attack from Piccolo or Gokuu, because neither of them possess techniques that can use such a high percentage of their power at once.

Goku had already taken out his weight clothing by that point, and, as shown in the battle against Radtiz, besides special moves, that's the only thing which change DB Goku power level
Besides everything else, there's the simple fact that the Kikoho is only powerful because most of Tenshinhan's ki is used to fuel it. However, The kikoho that Tenshinhan used against Buu didn't make Tenshihan die[VS Nappa], fall uncouncious[VS Cell], or even get tired[VS Budokai Arena... er... Goku].




Tenshinhan IN THE MANGA ABOUT GOKU FIGHTING FREEZA AND THE USE OF KAIÔKEN: "At his level of training, he should be able to multiply his power up to a factor of 10!"

Tenshinhan sees Goku's max without straining himself to be a factor of 10, and again reiterates that the Kaio-ken still multiplies by folds.

Goku: "I...I could try a Kaio-ken increase to 20 times...but I don't know if my body can handle it..."
As goku got stronger he could multiply his own power more.
Goku at 8,000 could only do 4x at best
Goku at around 3 millions could do 20x
Yet you couldn't possibly think goku at around 100,000 could do 20x or in Tenshinhan's case 10,000x.

So the stronger you have Tenshinhan, the more the neo kikoho multiplier makes sense.

Tenshinhan saying he is going to use KaiôKen's techniques isn't good enough?
He has to both say he's going to use them. Then mention it 10 other times. Then yell Kaioken when he uses the attack. Then explain to Cell that the Neo Kikoho uses Kaioken-esk skills. Then write "I'm using King Kai's fucking Techniques' all over his muscular body, before some biased fanboys admit it?
The Neo Kikoho has no psychic energy in it. The name meaning itself has no mentioning of granting the user power to push or hold back foes 10,000x stronger than yourself. It's a pure destructive power force that's all coming from Tenshinhan.

And actually the kikoho can be used as proof of something. For Tenshinhan to be as weak as some of you biased retards put him, maybe even weaker than captain ginyu...lol He shouldn't be able to output 10,000x his strength 10 times in a row at all and make semi-perfect cell drool in an inescapable pit.
I couldn't even deal with Tenshinhan pulling off a lucky one tri-beam without going boom...but around ten times each over 10,000x his normal power??! loooool

If you use the theory of life force (which is denied by the manga)... Then shouldn't self destructing also amp you're attack around 10,000x you're natural strength?
For Tenshin to be under 1,000,000 and expel an attack 10,000x his strength 10 times is far more unbelievable than thinking Tenshinhan was indeed much over a million just training on earth under Sensei Kaiô training methods for 3 years.

Toriyama disregards fanboyism over what his plot is calls for. You can clearly see this by how humans can be over 3 times more powerful in under a year when training in urgency in the saiyan saga. How is it not more believable that humans can gain this growth when training in urgency for 3 years? Thinking humans are bound by this "human wall" really is a dumb assumption. Humans have broken this wall as early as dragon ball times. They shouldn't even be called human anymore. More like super human. So comparing their growth to at least half what a saiyan's growth gain would be (without zenkai) isn't wrong at all.

Agree that Tenshinhan shouldn't be "logically" be anywhere in the millions because he's only a human and is not a saiyan nor a namekian warrior. But you guys have to remember ...humans have broken this "human wall" as early as db times. Looking at krillin because he's a human when he first made his appearance in dragonball you'd never think he'd be as strong as he is now. Plus tenshinhan has alien blood making him in a league of his own.

Someone is going to have to give a good explanation how Tenshinhan can do a feat that android 16 couldn't even dream of doing. Being at a power level less than 100,000 as some of you retards put him and using the neo tri-beam to expel an attack 10,000x his normal strength in continuous rains of 10 times without blowing up or dying of fatigue after the first strike, simply isn't possible at all.
Think about it this way. Each energy attack in Dragon Ball uses a proportionally-fixed amount of the user's "ki".

If Goku has 1000 "ki points", then "Kamehameha" allows him to direct 1% of his total "ki", or 10 "ki points"

If Tenshinhan has 100 "ki points", then "Kikoho" allows him to direct 25% of his total "ki", or 25 "ki points"

Goku would still have more energy than Tenshinhan and more physical strength because of his higher "ki rating", but Tenshinhan can direct more energy at once using the "Kikoho".



Question:
The power of the Kikoho isn't derived from the users power, rather it multiplies its power and uses the users lifeforce. If it was Ten's own power, that would mean Ten > Artificial Human 16 +Piccolo +#17+#18 etc

Answer:Are you fucking retarded??????????????????????There is no life force involved according to the precious manga.Furthermore,using Toriyama definition of battle power:
When it comes to battle, the most important thing is ki size, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe.


Kikoho means ki size and control,all these things are represented by Shin Kikoho.loooooool
Where is it stated that the "Kikoho" technique "multiplies" the power of the user? The attack draws energy from the hidden potential (similar to the "Kamehameha") and spiritual force of the user, which would mean that it's -still- using Tenshinhan's own power -- it's just ultimately fatal if overused.
Meaning that Tenshinhan's hidden potential would be at least in the range of a supressed semi-perfect Cell,considering that Shin Kikoho holds Cell in that form.

Original translation from the original japanese manga who proves there isn't life force involved:
Kame Sennin "...The "Chi Cannon"... a move of enormous destructive force... many times more powerful than even a Kamehameha... its power is so colossal, in fact, that the drain on one's own energy is devastating... warriors have been known to die by using it... and even if one survives, one's life is shortened... that evil Tsuru-sen'nin... teaching him a move that should be never taught...

"It's a technique with the potential for incredible destructive energy*... Several times more than even the Kamehameha..."

*Nothing about pushing back the opponent. Hakairyoku is a pretty straightforward word (destructive energy/power). You cannot get the idea that the Kikoho is a mere pusing attack from this text.


Some biased retarded fans forget to mention that it's power comes from Tenshinhan's ki. It is a strong attack, but it's strength comes from his ki. Also, notice that that doesn't mean that Cell Saga Tenshinhan > Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, A-16, A-17, A-18 etc. It means that Tenshinhan can fire ten blasts which are stronger than anything those people can make and fall unconscious.

But remember that it's still his ki, and... points to Nappa's fight... Using the kikoho(which can't be that much worse than the shin kikoho, Goku even calls that new attack only kikoho) with all his ki in one blast Tenshinhan only stops Nappa's movement, and dies. This is a worse result than the one from the blasts against Cell and he used all his ki in one blast, instead of few blasts.
Tenshinhan also doesn't looks tired after using Kikoho to deflect Buutensks energy blast.

And before "Super" Buu kicked Tenshinhan he thought to himself "Hey, normally I just whack people with my full strength since I'm evil, but I'm only going to hit -this- guy lightly doing my hardest to not kill him since he's such an attractive man."lol
However,0,00001 of Super Buutenks power was above a 50% freeza.lol.
Its just for the series to retain any form of logicality, Tenshinhan needs to be in the low millions. An attack being x500 is farfetched, but no more than the SSJ2 multiplier on many lists. But an attack being x30,000... anyone who says Tien is in the low hundred thousands, clearly hasn't got their head around the utter stupidity of this multiplier. I mean my god, its higher than most Potara and SSJ3 put together, and in many cases x10 that.




Tenshinhan also dodges a laser that even base Goku had trouble with, and keeps up with Piccolo(to an extent) who is in the megamillions. Thats proof right there, that Tenshinhan is not /10000th of Piccolo's power. a PL: 50,000 can’t dodge with the same ability as a PL: 10,000,000+
Piccolo flew at top speed to assist Trunks against A-18. Tenshinhan followed, also at top speed with a fuzzy aura. By some retard levels, Piccolo should have reached A-17 before Tenshinhan even left the ground. As it is, Piccolo was about 2-5 times faster at most, probably even less.
Another evident point is that if Gero is 30,000,000 and Yamcha is 2,000,000 then Gero becomes considerably stronger(6.6%) from absorbing him. If Gero is 30,000,000 and Yamcha is 50,000 then Gero becomes fuck(+0.16%) all stronger. Since Gero said that Yamcha is a good source of power, and not a useless and pathetic source of power,it is obvious he would be in the millions.

Alongside with Piccolo and Tenshinhan Goku said to A-20:
“…We’ll tear you to pieces…” and all of them were in battle stances.


dumb question: Vegeta in SSJ form deflects kikoha blast from Boo. Whats your point?


Answer:So you're implying that the difference between Tenshinhan and "Super" Buu (+ Gotenks and Piccolo) is the same as the difference between Super Saiya-jin Vegeta and a less powerful form of Majin Buu? That would mean that Tenshinhan is ridiculously strong and wouldn't help the position you've advocated thus far, so I'm going to assume you just didn't understand what you were saying.looool
Finally,future base gohan is owning easily young super sayajin Trunks
which means base sayajins were above 150 millions.Get over it fucking retards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!loooooooooooooooool


Once again, based on Tenshinhan's increases we see this:

Before: Tenshinhan was weaker than Old Daimao

After 3 years: Tenshinhan became equal to Weighted Goku and stronger than old Daimaoh

This is all after Tenshinhan trained under Karin for a bit and training with Chaozu. That's a huge increase.

Before: Raditz stronger than goku and Piccolo by a long shot

After: Tenshinhan stronger than Raditz by a long shot

Tenshinhan after training in much less time compared to Goku surpasses Raditz. Those are all examples of Tenshinhan exceeding normal training methods when he was at a disadvantage. It happened. With Kaio, he had longer and harder training than Goku, so Tenshin being in the millions it is a Fact.In dragonball, it was shown that he's equivalent to goku in power gains.


Tenshinhan always trains hard,and he still invents new things and find new methods to get stronger. He felt he was capable of getting far more stronger then goku did on king kai. It's obvious that Tenshin got at least a third of an increase as all the hardcore saiyans and nameks got.
He'd keep on breaking his human limits as he did as early as dragonball time. Mastering the shin kikoho brought his raw ki up in a rapid succession. There are a ton of reasons how or why he could get that strong.

Assuming he's less than 1 million because he's a human is retarded.
He isn't a regular human,Tenshin has alien ancestry and Krillin went from below 2,000 to around 75,000 in a single day,besides that concept of human is wrong,humans couldn't make ever what krillin did in the 21 World tournament let alone what happens after Raditz's arrival.

The mere fact that he can produce an attack over a hundred times his natural power already means we shouldn't bound him by normal human or even saiyan logic. He has shown to be as good as Goku in training conditions. He was shown to get over 7x stronger in one year of fierce training. If he really wanted, he could even use multi form and beat himself/make himself his own training partner and get incredible mind boggling increases off of that. The possibilities are limitless. And of course "Plot" shows Tenshin became that strong.


The fact that I've shown Tenshinhan canonically exceeds natural gains, even when at a disadvantage, shows he can make great gains regardless. And Piccolo actually was willing to have Tien come along with him with the idea of fighting Cell. Once again, assuming he's less than 1 million just because it doesn't comply with faulty calculations is retarded.

DBZ fan with a brain:
Seeing that Tien and the others showed up to fight beings that where so much powerful than freeza shows that they were in the millions specially, cos they felt Freeza’s suppressed level and afterwards Piccolo told them to not show up if they couldn’t become strong enough and that is the reason why tenshinhan left Chaozu behind.
Here you can see Piccolo's warning to Tenshinhan,Krillin and Yamcha:
























Akira Toriyama uses his wisest member Piccolo to tell us that Tenshinhan,Yamcha and Krillin would get to the millions during those 3 years of training,ie,the ones who couldn't reach a battle power in the millions shouldn't show up.
They showed up to fight specially Tenshinhan.
Obviously, anyone out of the millions or bellow Freeza's supressed battle power who was at least above 3 millions would get in the way.

Its just for the series to retain any form of logicality, he needs to be in the low millions. An attack being x500 is farfetched, but no more than the SSJ2 multiplier on many lists. But an attack being x30,000... anyone who says Tien is in the low hundred thousands, clearly hasn't got their head around the utter stupidity of this multiplier. I mean my god, its higher than most Potara and SSJ3 put together, and in many cases x10 that.
Tenshinhan was ready to fight with Goku & Piccolo right in the city, and it would be absurd to even consider he's not flirting with at least a Battle Power over a million in a fight with guys stated to "make Freeza seem like a weakling", as Goku puts it.
Tenshinhan went from being outclassed by Old Daimao, to being equal to a weighted Goku after training under Kami/Popo for 3 yrs, who was quite a bit stronger than Young Daimao. Tien can increase a whole lot, easily. He's not restricted to anything.

Tenshinhan didn't go into the room of spirit and time, because he KNEW his power was useless compared to the others by that point. This didn't stop him from training and showing up for the Androids after feeling Freeza's supressed power level who was certainly above 3 millions.

Tenshinhan got harder training from Kaio, and was there for way longer than Goku. He also had others there with him. Tenshinhan got a way bigger increase than Goku from Kami's training with shorter time (3yrs for Goku and 6 months for Tenshinhan) during the training, so there's canon evidence of it being possible; the same can be applied here. He was easily above Ginyu by the time the Trunks saga arrives. Kaio's training is that good.

Tenshinhan always has shown that he could make leaps in power in a short amount of time. This point isn't any different--and actually makes sense considering he had 3 years to prepare.

Tenshinhan doesn't even needs sparring partners,cos he can split in 4 bodies getting stronger training on his own. However, regardless, he still trained and came to the decision that Chaozu "wouldn't be able to keep up" with the upcoming battle.
All of that shows that Tenshinhan was at a respectable enough level to think he can keep up. Clearly over 1 million!!!!!!!!!!! Or does he think he can keep up without even finishing the 100,000 range? lol


Plus,Gohan is put in the same category (None of you can beat the Android) as Tenshinhan by Piccolo. The only one worth mentioning is Super Saiyan Goku.
A power above 100% Freeza.



Tenshinhan can make up any special training routines that would make a significant difference supported by the fact that Tenshinhan
outrights states that he will adapt Kaio's training to go along with his own training making him incredibly strong in the several millions.

Once again, based on Tenshinhan's increases we see this:

Before: Tenshinhan was weaker than Old Daimao

After 3 years: Tenshinhan became equal to Weighted Goku and stronger than old Daimaoh

This is all after Tenshinhan trained under Karin for a bit and training with Chaozu. That's a huge increase.

Before: Raditz stronger than goku and Piccolo by a long shot

After: Tenshinhan stronger than Raditz by a long shot

Tenshinhan after training in much less time compared to Goku surpasses Raditz. Those are all examples of Tenshinhan exceeding normal training methods when he was at a disadvantage. It happened. With Kaio, he had longer and harder training than Goku, so Tenshin being in the millions it is a Fact.In dragonball, it was shown that he's equivalent to goku in power gains.


Tenshinhan always trains hard,and he still invents new things and find new methods to get stronger. He felt he was capable of getting far more stronger then goku did on king kai. It's obvious that Tenshin got at least a third of an increase as all the hardcore saiyans and nameks got.
He'd keep on breaking his human limits as he did as early as dragonball time. Mastering the shin kikoho brought his raw ki up in a rapid succession. There are a ton of reasons how or why he could get that strong.

Assuming he's less than 1 million because he's a human is retarded.
He isn't a regular human,Tenshin has alien ancestry and Krillin went from below 2,000 to around 75,000 in a single day,besides that concept of human is wrong,humans couldn't make ever what krillin did in the 21 World tournament let alone what happens after Raditz's arrival.

The mere fact that he can produce an attack over a hundred times his natural power already means we shouldn't bound him by normal human or even saiyan logic. He has shown to be as good as Goku in training conditions. He was shown to get over 7x stronger in one year of fierce training. If he really wanted, he could even use multi form and beat himself/make himself his own training partner and get incredible mind boggling increases off of that. The possibilities are limitless. And of course "Plot" shows Tenshin became that strong.


The fact that I've shown Tenshinhan canonically exceeds natural gains, even when at a disadvantage, shows he can make great gains regardless. And Piccolo actually was willing to have Tien come along with him with the idea of fighting Cell. Once again, assuming he's less than 1 million just because it doesn't comply with faulty calculations is retarded.


Question:Lets say Tien's 1,000,000. To get to 1,500,000, he'd have to increase his power by 500,000.

Answer:Are you fucking retarded????
By that point, that's not much of an increase at all. Going by points, Piccolo gained an unbelievable amount of them meaning that he went from 1 million to over or equal to 150 millions. He can be a namek, super namek, whatever--but increasing 150 millions is a ton. Tenshinhan can get a 10 fold increase and still be far behind all of them. Gohan was also pretty weak, so his throw down with Super Saiyan Goku & Piccolo wasn't nearly as effective as Piccolo's.
Tenshinhan being a human(he isn't) has no relevance to it, because he can get more out of a year than what Goku did in 8 full years of namek training system. He also had tougher training with Kaio for 266 days, so his training was totally different from Goku's and not comparable.

Kaio claimed training on his planet was the equivalent to thousands of years of training on earth. Tenshinhan trained on this awesome planet for 266 days(more than 6 months) after doing a lot more in 6 months on earth than goku in 8 years.
So just imagine what he did while receiving more intense training than the Saiyan and staying longer than goku in that planet.




Cell was not obviously caught off guard

Cell is talking to #18, then suddenly senses a massive power above him. It's Tien charging the N-Kikoho!!!

Despite having reflexes in the billionths of a second range, Cell is surprised so badly by Tien that he stands still as Tien cries out Shin Kikoho, and then is smashed into a hole by the attack!



After being smashed into the hole, Cell gets up and eyes his opponent with an evil look. Believing Tiens first strike to be his last, he utters the words "Damn You" before a second strike smashes him yet again!


By now, anyone with half a brain(let alone someone with the intelligence of Piccolo) would have realized this could continue for a while. As such, Cell realizes that Tien will continue to strike for multiple attacks. Whilst still flinching from the second strike, Cell is blasted again(or twice again)!



Cell sees the Androids escaping, " I better escape NOW!" he thinks...

MFG dumb old theory:
Cell was not hurt from Tiens Shin Kikoho's, he was just merely pushed back for a couple of minutes

DBZ fan with a brain:
OMFG are you fucking retarded???
He is covered with either scratches, burns, or dirt. He could easily be hurt from the attack, also note how there is smoke coming from his body.
SK It doesn't drain life force, that was a viz mistake. It’s just a very powerful attack, that like all ki attacks if it is used too much will be detrimental to your health.
Again you have been taken apart!!!!!
obliterated!!!!!!! Smashed to pieces!!!!!!!!!!!


MFG dumb old theory:
the Kikoho is a unique technique that does so at such an alarming rate, it is dangerous to the users health.

DBZ fan:
Fucking dumbass, if Goku spammed 20 kamehameha's he would collapse also.
Keep throwing this nonsense at me, and I'll keep taking you outta the park like Pujols!!!!!!!!!!


MFG brainless dumb old theory:

Tien being 150,000 by the Buu Saga IS an increase that is worthy enough for a mere human who never received RoSat(room of spirit and time) training, or training over x10 Earths gravity.


DBZ fan with a brain:
That's why you get bitchslapped and taken apart on the regular dumbass!!!!

Tenshinhan made a special training to the androids saga and he used a special weighted outfit(it is in the manga)probably given by Kaio.
Ten is not a kid anymore he doesn't need a sensei to train anymore, that's why he created something big like shin kikoho.Every time the z-senshi trained for a battle all of them had a big increase in power,that is the standard.

Kame sennin and kami,both explained that training with a master under special conditions and then following with their own regiment to improve even more was the key and a standard repeated several times through Dragon ball and gravity training is not reliable for nothing.
Goku abandoned gravity training and vegeta trained in 150 after mastering 300.

Actually if Goku were able to train in 100xG (before namek), he would weight near 10 tons in the gravity chamber. And it seemed ridiculous that he was considering the 10 tons that the other Kaio suggested, to be impossible for him, and needed to turn SSJ... These 40-tons are ridiculous for many reasons.

Plus, daizenshuu (and manga) suggests that Tenshinhan was in the millions just read what he said when goku was fighting Freeza,then look at kaioken theory according to the Daizenshuu.


Piccolo's increased is not due to his fusion with Nail or he would be a match for SSJFP after his fusion with Kami.

Plus, Goku ssj was a lot stronger than base Piccolo when they trained together.

Piccolo couldn't keep up with him so Goku has nothing to do with Piccolo's increase.
Base Piccolo during namek battle=1 million and base goku= 3 millions.

Again Gohan(the guy with more potential among all the characters) also trained with ssj Goku too and he could not go to ssj level, actually he is mentioned by Piccolo as being close to Tenshinhan and Krillin in power,but on the other hand Piccolo who also trained with ssj goku was comparable to a ssj meaning that ssj goku had nothing to do with Piccolo's increase .
You got smashed again!!!!!!

Raditz also trained his whole life on gravity and still he was a weakling.
The true is that everyone increases faster on dbz regardless how they train.

You can't apply small db increases in therms of numbers to dbz, because the logic behind those increases in DB or DBZ is very simple ,
as the enemies kept getting stronger (like in early dragon ball)everyone gets stronger faster and faster than ever.The rate increase is determined by the enemies.

In dbz Toriyama had to make the heroes get stronger faster,because the enemies were getting stronger too by every chapter.

Harder training was the key!

Everyone increases faster than ever!
There is no exception for the humans who improved 732% in a few months after
training with Kami,the same happens again when they train with Kaio-sama or by themselves for the Android saga.
It is obvious that Goku and Piccolo are better,but Piccolo
was a Namek and Gohan a sayajin in the sayan saga and they were close to the humans.

What some guys are saying is that Piccolo
without nail couldn't reach the millions and that is retarded.

Now put that in your pipe and smoke it DUMBASS!!!!


MFG dumb old theory:

What proof do you have that he did special training? There's nothing of the sort ever mentioned. Weighted clothing only works to an extent, hence Goku/Vegeta resorting to higher Gravity, and Tenshin most definitely reached that extent. His 3 years of training could not have been that incredibly productive to bring his powers from the thousands into the millions. That is, once again, just going by the logic established in the series and ignoring Toriyama 's typical haphazardness.


Answer:

Are you fucking retarded???????lol
He did special training, because he prepared himself to fight
in a big battle against someone stronger than freeza.
And everytime a z-senshi trains to a big battle all of them get a big increase.
Besides, he wanted to test his limits,plus how can you ignore his special outfit?

Read and understand and don't just fly off at the mouth with jibberish!

MFG dumb old theory:

Having an aid or master help you train has nothing to do with how old or mature the character is. Goku is twice the fighter Ten is and he still makes use of Kaio-sama to help him in his training. And I'm not saying Ten didn't get stronger; just that he didn't increase his power into the millions.

Answer:
Listen you dumb stinking rat,do you enjoy being made to look stupid???
You miss the fucking point that none of them needs a master at that point.
Goku ignored gravity training during those years,so there is no reason why Ten could not do the same.
I don't know why do you think millions is such an amazing number to achieve in dbz universe for a z-senshi which is a fucking heroe ...well again gravity is not the main thing.


MFG dumb old theory:

What they meant is that is grow as a fighter but for increasing their power, any aid is preferable to no aid. Goku wouldn't have gotten as powerful in the 7 years of peace if not for Kaio-sama's aid. Besides, you are missing the entire point. All the massive increases that put Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo into the millions were either incredible training conditions, or genetic gifts. Goku/Vegeta abused Zenkai's and gravity training and Piccolo took advantage of Nails fusion. Ten doesn't have either of these

Answer:
What they meant is that a z-warrior, a martial artist like them doesn't need a master all the time to improve a lot.
They are grown men and they are smart enough to do it by themselves, that's why Ten said he couldn’t surpass Goku by doing the same training as him and that all he could do was quickly grasp just the point of his training and finally uniquely refine his techniques.

From that point on, Tenshinhan used Kaio's training methods to keep improving faster than ever.

Tenshin doesn't need his presence anymore,it is like saying that Tenshinhan

needs Tsuru-Sennin to use what he has learned with him.

Remember,

that after they learned Kami's style,he told the humans to split and train by themselves using what they have

learned with him,ie,using his training methods.

Roshi said the same thing when they prepared to the 23º BT.






And during those 3 years the only guy using gravity is vegeta. Piccolo didn't have incredible training conditions and still he managed to improve so many millions.

Plus, Goku didn’t use kaio's aid or gravity to train in those 3 years (like Tenshinhan) and all of us know that Goku did astonishing progresses.
Vegeta didn’t have anybody to help him and became extremely powerful,so your point fails hard.
Again you have been taken apart!!!!!

MFG dumb old theory:
Goku didn't abandon Gravity training, he just never had the opportunity to take advantage of it again or had something better at his disposal. In the three years before the Cyborgs he was training Gohan. There was only one Gravity Chamber anyways and Vegeta was using it. After that, he used the Room of Spirit and Time which is far superior to the Gravity room anyways. Then, he died, and was training in the After-life and I'm pretty sure they lack Gravity Chambers there. The only time he could use it was during the 10 years after the defeat of Buu but we know so little about that period that it's pointless to speculate whether he did or didn't.

Answer:
And the nominees for THE I GOT BITCH SLAPPED THE HARDEST FOR 2WAY THUGGING AWARD are...MFG crazy dumb member.

Goku abandoned Gravity training period, if gravity was the big thing he just could ask Bulma to make a new
Gravity Chamber for him
and he wasn't just training Gohan, he trained himself to become stronger than ever like Piccolo and as you can see
Piccolo's increase proves that all of them got a big boost.

MFG dumb old theory:

The 40 ton thing when goku was training to the 25 World tournament is irrelevant to this conversation

Answer:
Again trying to ignore the facts dumbass and twist the reality.
You fail again!!!!!!!Actually it is crucial and clearly proves that Toriyama wasn't thinking about gravity as the only way to improve
or else Toriyama wouldn't make a mistake like that.
Worse, vegeta was training in 150 after mastering 300 in those 7 years.



Meaning that when Goku trained at 10x earths gravity (and mastered it) on Kaio's planet, his base powerlevel went up to "over 8.000". Now when he travelled to namek he mastered training in 100xG. But after this training his power level was stated to be "About 85,000". So by training in 10x (100xG) the earlier gravity training, which was 10xG, his powerlevel went about 10 times up... So theoretically (with a linear relation) Goku in SSJ form, where his PL was about 150 million should be able to train in about 150.000xG! Toriyama didn't think about this after the Freeza saga, because Vegeta's training in 100xG ruins this theory.
Actually if Goku were able to train in 100xG (before Namek), he would weight near 10 tons in the gravity chamber. And it is ridiculous that he was considering to lift the 10 tons that the other Kaio suggested when , to be impossible for him, and needed to turn SSJ... These 40-tons are ridiculous for obvious reasons.


In daizenshuu 7 Page 119

"Just, there cannot have a big difference between the base fighting potential and his original base (powerlevel)to use it , and if the fighter persists in carrying out a very powerful kaioken his body can explode under the effect of a powerful energy discharge.

For the one whose fighting potential reaches 8.000 the limits to use safely kaioken must be the double, that is to say 16.000.
For the one who has a potential of 3.000.000 kaioken can
increase his powerlevel ten more times "
The text about kaioken also states that kaioken uses life force
French daizenshuu also states that neo kikoho is a stronger version from kikoho.
But, above you could read that if you use an attack with life force and your power level is too low,your body will explode.
Regarding daizenshuu is clear to me that this text suggests that Tenshinhan had a power level in the millions.



It clearly states that your body can explode
if you use an attack who is a lot stronger than your base power level
ex:Goku to use safely his kaio ken x 10 had to reach 3 millions.
So shin kikoho is a lot more powerful than kaioh ken x 10 or 20 and if Ten's body didn't explode it is obvious that
he had a pl in the millions.


Dumb MFG old theory:

But Piccolo's power is most definitely due to the Nail fusion. There's no debating that at all. Without the Nail fusion he's weaker then 1st from Freeza, with the fusion he's superior to 2nd form Freeza and has a power level around 1 million. There's not question that the Nail fusion did wonders for his power. And when I mention training with Goku I mean the 3 years before the Cyborgs, not the 7 years after Cell's defeat.


Answer:
I'm trying to say that if the fusion with Nail is what made him increase so much during those 3 years, tell me why he couldn't keep up with Goku and Vegeta after a fusion with Kami and 7 years of training.
Plus,Gohan who has more potential than Piccolo and trained with him and ssj Goku was miles away from Piccolo.
Actually, Piccolo says that Gohan Krillin and Tenshinhan belong to the same branch of power,ie,several millions.


Dumb MFG old theory:

Which further backs up my stance that once you get used to one method it no longer becomes benificial (Ten's weighted clothing) and that it takes extreme training conditions to give these massive leaps of power. Something Ten didn't have.

Answer:
Actually is the opposite,cos piccolo used his weighted clothing during those 3 years and you don't know how much
weight had that outfit.
Ten had his extreme training conditions created by himself with everything he learned in the past,Kami style/Namek training methods and Kaio style alongside with kaio-sama training methods.
Piccolo didn't have your "special conditions" either and he increased at least 100 milions.
Again gravity is not reliable to prove nothing.
So it makes sense that apart from Vegeta all of them had their personal intensive
conditions.
In piccolo's case gravity wasn't an issue to improve.
Simply Toriyama didn't care about those details.
You got clapped down again!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hailthe king. Kneel down and kiss the wilson pro staff!!!!!!


MFG dumb old theory:

Because they received both new and more intense training during this part of the story

Answer:WOW you are definitely naturally retarded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah,they received intense training by themselves provided by everything they have learned in the past,in Tenshinhan's case Namek training system and Kaio's training system the best in the Universe.
There isn't anybody else to provide extra teachings like in the preparation for the 23 BT where Ten managed to surpass Piccolo Daimaoh, former main villain at the time training by himself.
Goku trained alone too for the 22º BT.
The only guy who used high gravity was vegeta so you can't exclude all the others.

MFG dumb old theory:
Because they hadn't taken advantage of their genetic gifts, the Zenkai's and the fusions, and they didn't use the extreme gravity training yet. Before the Saiyan arc weighted clothing was the ultimate thing in personal training. Once the alien races started taking advantage of their gifts they destroyed the humans and that is my point. You can't sit there and look at Goku or Piccolo's increases and say that Ten probably made the same advancements.

Answer:
Piccolo didn't use extreme gravity training ever.
What destroyed the humans was ssj transformation and piccolo's fusion with kami.
That's why Ten didn't accept to train in the rosat(room of spirit and time),but he accepted to train for the android saga and obviously he was confident that he could be useful.
What same advancements?
I'm saying that if piccolo improved 100 millions without fusions or gravity why couldn't Tenshinhan improve 20 millions?


MFG dumb old theory:
Without Nail or Kami he probably would be hard pressed to do so. After all, as you pointed out, Piccolo and the Humans were rather close before he started took advantage of the Namek Fusion.

Answer:
I see it this way,if there isn't a fusion with nail and let's say piccolo has 150 millions after those 3 years.
You just take from him 1 million,the power level he gained from the fusion with nail.
There you go, piccolo without nail would have 149 millions.

Finally, daizenshuu states that Shin Kikoho is a stronger version from the previous Kikoko and in the manga it isn't stated that he used life force,so if you add this
to the statement about goku saying that he needed to reach a pl of 3 millions to use kaioken x10 to avoid self destruction,ie, goku's body would explode.
I cannot see how Tien's body (Ten uses an attack stronger than kaio ken x20) could sustain such a massive attack without explode himself to pieces considering that goku's body could explode with a weaker boost increase.

Plus,You don't know how shin kikoho works,both are dangerous, both can kill you and daizenshuu clearly suggests that both follow similar principles if you think about ten's statements in kaio's planet about mixing kaio's teachings with his techniques everything is solved.
Plus, Tenshinhan knows how much ki goku needed to use kaiokenx10 and he was not impressed.
Basically, it makes all the sense that if you need 3 millions to use an attack who improves your power level 10
times,shin kikoho who improves a lot more than 20 would force you to have a pl above that.



Nail on Piccolo after 6 days on king kai:
"You have an astonishing amount of power" and Piccolo basically agreed.

This puts Piccolo above Nail after 6 days on king kais if you ask me. This all also happened after Nail sensed the power of Captain Ginyu.

Now lets consider that Ten was on King kai 260 days,254 days more then Piccolo,that makes his Pl after king kai rather VERY high.
Considering piccolo progression during those 3 years and the fast pace everyone increased in dbz like in the sayan saga or just the fact that 158 days on Kaiô-sama's planet=several thousand years of training on Earth it is possible that piccolo surpassed nail.
Remember if there isn't a quote saying that Piccolo fought like a ssj against c-20 everyone would say that piccolo had a pl around 12.000.000 using your biased retarded logic.
Dbz logic is quite different.


Dumb MFG old theory:
Gravity isn't the only way but it helps immensely. Any and all increases that put the characters at these absurd power levels were either due to absurd training situations (Kami's weighted clothing, 10x gravity, 100x Gravity, 300x Gravity, Room of Spirit and Time, the After-life) or were due to the character taking advantage of unique genetic gifts. (Namekian Fusion, Zenkai's, SSJ forms)

Answer:
Not again dumbass!!!!!!!
Actually my point is crucial and clearly proves that Toriyama wasn't thinking about gravity as the only way to improve
or else toriyama wouldn't make the 40 ton mistake .
Worse,vegeta was training in 150 after mastering 300 in those 7 years.
You also ignore the fact that Goten or Future Trunks who didn't train under gravity 10 100 or 300 managed to reach ssj level in the Earth as you can see gravity isn't an issue for a big boost in Toriyama's mind or in what is presented in the manga.
Future Trunks also is fighting in ssj form against base gohan and he never trained on gravity and base gohan in his base form is playing with him.

I can't see nothing absurd about a z-warrior or an heroe in the story reaching a pl in the millions.
There isn't nothing that suggests something like hello,if you want to cross the 1 million mark please show us your zenkai,assimilation or gravity 100.
You seem like those early idiots from MFG who believed that a ssj had 15 millions.
Basically, you are saying that piccolo invited Tenshinhan to train in the rosat,because he is a nice guy.
No,Piccolo is a genius and he is not the favour guy type.
He invited him,because Tenshinhan had a pl in the millions,later in buu's saga majinbuu
with Piccolo's brains calls him pretty strong and considering that he had z- warriors as a reference he clearly was in the millions and
no,he wasn't thinking in the humans with 5 or 10 units,cos he had piccolo's knowledge.
Goku wanted to make a fusion with
Ten,that doesn't make any sense if the guy is out of millions. He would lose power.


Dumb MFG old theory:
Gravity was one of the reasons Goku increased his power from 400 to 8,000. Gravity was the sole reason Goku increased his power to 90,000. Gravity is the primary reason Vegeta surpassed Goku in the 3 years before the Cyborgs. Gravity is half the reason the Room of Spirit and Time is so good. Gravity is the reason Vegeta gained SSJ2 during the 7 years of peace. High Gravity training has been clearly shown to aid immensely.

Answer:
Do you enjoy being made to look stupid???

We saw those effects on piccolo when in the earth he improved more than 100 millions or when goku trained 1 month in the rosat(room of spirit and time) during his preparation for the 23ºBT.Gravity on rosat was around 50.
What happened???lol
You just got your dumb theory destroyed, logically gravity wasn't an issue,plus vegeta was training in 150 after mastering 300 in those 7 years.
Vegeta is the only one using gravity,because he is the only character at the time who can surpass goku.

You got obliterated put back together so I could obliterate you again!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Dumb MFG old theory:
Goku didn't do much better during the 3 years he traveled the world between 21st and 22nd tournament. And Vegeta, taking advantage of training in high Gravity, increased his power level by the millions. Which method seems better to you.

Answer:
OMFG you are lost in your retardation!!!!!!
Goku improved a lot by dragon ball standards.
In dbz parameters changed,they are not fighting anymore against humans.
They are fighting against aliens and against enemies where former levels and rate increase became irrelevant.The rate increase is that like in DB all of them need to improve a lot more to stay in the story.


You confuse dragon ball increases with dbz increases,

in both, heroes become strong enough to face the villains,simply,now the enemies are stronger,therefore everyone needs to improve faster than before.

That is the reason why the humans improved in a few months from 250 to near 2000 in the Earth.
They are capable to improve by themselves in the earth.
I'm sure that if there isn't nappa's statement saying that saibamen had a pl around 1200,you would say that the saibamen were weak and that there is no way the humans could improve so much in a few months.
Plus,these guys are not regular humans,a normal human can't make the feats presented in the world tournaments by the z-heroes.



Dumb MFG old theory:
So Goku going from 8k to 90k had absolutly no effect on the humans being left in the dust. Vegeta going from less then 3 million to being able to dent #19's face had no effect on the Humans being outclassed?

Answer:
How is that if piccolo in just 6 days managed to surpass nail,all of them trained together there is no reason to believe that the humans didn't get an huge increase there like in the sayajin saga.


Dumb MFG old theory:
Your entire argument is assuming Piccolo got into the 100 millions. There's nothing to back that up. We don't even know if #19 and Gero were stronger the Freeza and odds are they aren't.

Answer:
OMFG it is a fact that A-20 and A-19 were the original main androids,but Toriyama's editor asked for a new ones and Toriyama made A-17 and A-18,so the odds say that they were stronger than Freeza 100%.

And no,i already explained you the issues with gravity and the general progresses everyone did training for the sayajins.
Yes,krillin's statement proves that piccolo was in a ssj level.
If you choose to ignore it,because disproves your theory that is another story.
Piccolo going from over 1,000,000 to the Super Saiyan-tier (100,000,000+?) in three years or Tenshinhan and the gang doing better at Kami's half of the time without weights in a year than Goku did in 8 years of supreme namek training system. It shows that you gain power faster, the higher you get.This is what happens in dbz with everyone who belongs to the z-group.
Even, if they are weaker than freeza 100%,obviously, Android 20 was that strong, then it means 19 is even weaker(stated in the daizenshuu). SSJ Goku would've wasted 19 in a matter of seconds, seriously. He was being slowed down, but he was still powerful. No one that weak would be strong enough to be slapped around that much.
Goku was kicking the shit out of 19 before he absorbed anything. Even Piccolo said Goku was rushing the battle.
Goku was out of breath when they arrived, but when he transformed into SSJ, Tenshinhan was amazed, so we know he's still very powerful and above the power displayed against Trunks 3 years earlier. It was stated Goku's energy dropped when he fired that beam.


Tell me, why did Tenshin, expert in martial arts, self train if partner training is 10x better? The answer: It's not.

Dumb MFG old theory:
Fusing with Tien>Fusing with Hercule or Dende


Answer:

It is a shame that tenshinhan was the only guy presented by goku as the only valuable option.

Dumb MFG old theory:

Uh, yes. Piccolo respects Ten as a fighter and was willing to give him a chance in the Room of Spirit and Time. Ask yourself this: If Ten wasn't standing right next to them do you really think Piccolo would have flown down to wherever Ten was and made the same offer? Of course not.

Answer:
This is not our world or a real life moment,this is a cartoon, Toriyama puts Tenshinhan there,he had the power to take him out or even not use piccolo to make that suggestion or even not make that suggestion at all.

Get over it dumbass!!!!!!!!!!!

Dumb MFG old theory:
No, but he does show respect and Kami is the kind of guy that is generous and give favors.

Answer:
OMFG how can you keep making these dumb biased statements????lol
You fail, kami is gone, piccolo’s personality is in charge now,and he is not going to make kind suggestions.
Owned again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dumb MFG old theory
Re-read the part. Goku brought Ten up as possible replacement after Gohan got absorbed. He also brought up Dende; Is he now in the hundreds of millions too?

Answer:
Again with mindless shit fucking imbecile??lol
You are the one who needs to re-read that part, he made objections to dende and mister satan,the only guy regarded as valuable in that situation it was Tenshinhan.
You love to be taken apart about the same subject over an over again.


If you look at dragon ball as a whole the trigger who takes an heroe to an astonishing improvement is a big battle.
The enemies changed in dbz and logically all of them will make big leaps. But they can't compete with a ssj,that is different.
I'm saying that Ten had several millions by the reasons expressed above including manga and daizenhuu quotes.


Dumb MFG old theory
Differenciating the two is silly.The characters were weak in Dragon Ball and got stronger when, surprise surprise, they began training in 10x gravity, an extreme condition. My point is continually backed up.

Answer:
OMFG you look like a broken record you fucking dumbass!!!!!!!!
When someone destroys your pathetic assumptions,let's take them out of context to look smart,lol
2way thugging at it's finest!!!!!!!!!!

Actually,it is the only way to understand the story,surprise surprise,goku trained on room of spirit and time (who has a gravity level of 50) in db and he got almost nothing.I guess rosat(room of spirit and time) didn't have extreme conditions there and gravity 50 is less than 10.lol Next you will say that gravity chamber is better

than room of spirit and time

looooooooool
Your point is continually disproved,those idiots on MFG brainwashed you.lol


After getting bludgeoned for the umpteenth time,you should take your ass whooping like a man and comeback to your beloved circle of friends with your dumb interpretation of dbz!!!!!!

Dumb MFG old theory
Yes, but not to the extent Goku or Piccolo did on Namek.

Answer:
Finally, you are opening your thick skull.lol
Not to the extent of a ssj Get it?

Dumb MFG old theory
Yes, it has nothing to do with them training with Kami and getting weighted clothing for the first time. EVERYTHING in a story is dictated by plot, but that doesn't mean the story doesn't also add reason along with it. Of course they got stronger because it was dictated by the plot, but the reasoning presented alongside is that Kami's training and weighted clothing allowed that increase. We are debating in-universe reasoning; not that the plot dictates increases



Answer:
Now,you want to use the plot as an excuse???
Pathetic!!!!!

In-universe reasoning

like Goku not improving nothing when he trained in DB

inside Rosat under 50 gravity?lollll

Plot for sayajins??Fuck, all of them got destroyed by Nappa,there is no reason for a plot device there fucking idiot.
So, there is a plot to increase against the sayajins,but there isn't a plot to increase against the cyborgs.
Half of the time they trained by themselves without weights in
Kami's Lookout.Dumbass!

Owned pretty bad Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only plot is that everytime the z-senshi train for a big battle their pl's increase a lot.
That training show us that everyone starts to improve faster than ever.
Why?Because, the enemies got stronger,db ridiculous small increases are not a reference anymore,so with new powerful enemies,new big improvements.


You need sleep. Rest and recuperate, you've been taken apart....again. You should be used to it by now.lol


Dumb MFG member


They had different training. Goku was trained by Mr. Popo to control his chi. The Humans were trained by Kami himself to combat the Saiyans. Their training was too different to draw comparisons to.

Answer
No, it wasn't, Popo knowledge came from kami and Goku applied
those teachings during 8 years,in both scenarios they trained to survive and beat powerful foes and save the earth and half of the time tenshin and the gang trained by themselves.Actually the manga shows Tenshin training by himself in Kami's lookout.
Krillin against popo,etc.

It is funny when humans improve more and faster than Goku in Kami's lookout in a short period of time you say

their training was too different to draw comparisons to, because Kami trained them to combat the Saiyans,but Popo also trained Goku to combat Piccolo who was the main villain at the time.
But, when they train with Kaio-sama
to combat aliens more powerful than Vegeta and it is stated their training will be harder than ever,ie,the same scenario we saw in kami's lookout,you dismiss everything saying with your biased crap that they couldn't do better than Goku.
Priceless!Your BS has no limits!

Owned again fuck damn it!!!!!






Tenshinhan's During Those 7 Years After Cell
First let's see what the Daizenshuu tell us:
DragonBall Daizenshuu 2 – Story Guide
Tenshinhan wanders throughout the entire Earth. He will continue training forever.

Vol. 42 / Chp. 517 It seems that he(Chaozu who follows Tenshinhan orders and obviously Tenshinhan ) trains often in northern provinces, and in the mountains he wears heavy clothing.

Also Daizenshuu 2 states that after the battle with Cell, he(Krillin) peacefully lives with No. 18 at Kame House. Even having a daughter now, he has thoroughly distanced himself from battle.

Vol. 36 / Chp. 426 (Krillin) No longer training, his hair has grown out.


As you can see Krillin during 7 years didn't train anymore instead Tenshinhan trained always like an animal to become stronger(stated in Daizenshuu 7) during 7 years with weigths and some dumbasses want to convince us that Krillin
was stronger than Tenshinhan.lol
Tenshinhan was always stronger than Krillin ALWAYS!!!!!!!!
Daizenshuu 2, p.130
TENSHINHAN
A lofty martial artist who aims for distant heights.
As a pupil of Tsuru-sennin, Tenshinhan aimed to be the greatest assassin in the world, but shaken by Kame-sennin's words in the end he followed his own road. Usually not interacting with his allies, he continues his journey of training with just Chaozu and rushes to the scene whenever anything happens.


TSURU-SENNIN PUPIL ERA / VOL. 10~12
Trained by Tsuru-sennin, he aimed to be an assassin like Tao Pai Pai. He possesses many types of techniques, and his speed is especially prominent.



TRAVELING WARRIOR ERA / VOL. 12~42
After the battle with Piccolo Daimao had ended, he began to live the life of a traveling warrior along with Chaozu. On a plot of land deep in the mountains, the two of them immerse themselves in training.

Vol. 31 / Chp. 373 His techniques powered up as well.

Vol. 41 / Chp. 501 Even during the battle with Buu, he gallantly appears. He saves Dende.

Daizenshuu 7: Human Racial Dictionary
Tenshinhan
A martial artist

History
After the battle with Cell, he set off with Chaozu on a journey of training, and during the battle with Majin Buu he saved his comrade from danger.
Characteristics

As a descendent of the alien Three-Eyed People, he has physical idiosyncrasies that can't be considered that of an Earthling, such as splitting into four people, and growing arms from his shoulders. He's a rare pure martial artist, who only wishes to get stronger. (Daizenshuu 2, p.130 / Daizenshuu 4, p.69)





In the manga,Krillin was known to have settled down completely after Cell's death because of his family. Tenshinhan is shown in rocky area with his shirt off, in his martial arts clothing and is sweating,as always he was training to become stronger. Next to him is a fully dressed Chaozu. One chi beam was meant for Chaozu and the other one was for Tenshinhan
Here’s the scan for reference

































When Goku becomes supersayajin3 we can also see Tenshinhan with weithed Clothing alongside with Chaozu.

Miscellaneous
If Krillin was stronger, Tenshinhan would have had a little comment about it. He was training to surpass Goku after all. When the androids appear he complains that he doesn't like how strong Piccolo and Vegeta have become. Well, wouldn't he say something about the ugly midget? Tenshinhan has always been stronger than Krillin. Then one day he somehow surpasses him. The thing is, he didn't say anything even close to hinting it, and Tenshinhan probably has the second most pride next to Vegeta. This is not exactly evidence, but more of a personality trait, and something I'm pretty sure would have happened if Krillin was indeed stronger, which I proved he wasn't. Tenshinhan should be use to comments about his strength and technique, as almost every fighter who fights him or at least witnesses him fight gives him at least one good comment. Even the strongest villain in the Dragon Ball manga seems to be impressed about his skill saying that Tenshinhan was pretty strong and at the time Majin Buu had Piccolo knowledge about the Z-fighters which means Tenshinhan was powerful having the others z-fighters as reference not regulars humans beings and Tenshinhan is the only fighter referred as strong by Buu.
He met krillin before and he didn't say nothing. Buu's knowledge of Tenshinhan derived from Piccolo, thus making this statement that much better. Krillin gets get comments as well of course, but as the series progresses, no one even really comments about him anymore. If you want to take DBGT into account, then it once again points to Tenshinhan still training. Not only is Tenshinhan still in peak condition, but it looks like he hasn't aged AT ALL. Plus it helps that it looks like he was training when pans to him in GT.
Finally there is Yamcha quote:
The fact is that he is talking to a little girl, the circumstances in which the dialogues are being shown is important, that way you can tell the difference if the specific dialogue is serious or not, and wen he made the "Among humans that is" statement, he just remembered about the aliens(piccolo, sayans,humans in the tournament) and he was referring about those fighters in the tournament.
However,if someone insists in that statement i have to tell you that in the original japanese manga version, even aliens like Saiyans are considered human (ningen).
At that point android 18 was human so that means krillin also became stronger than A-18 which is laughable and retarded.
Besides it is stated in the daizenshuu 7 that Tenshinhan ALWAYS TRAINED HARD TO BECOME STRONGER,so he trained during those 7 years after the cell games.
Anyway-
Maroon:"is my dad gonna be okey"
Ymacha"yeah no sweat,your dads the strongest in the world"

The word world was in the sentence when he was cheering up Maroon so it doesn't mean anything

Yamcha:"Among humans that is"


Yamcha is admitting or already knows that Krillin has no chance of winning in that tournament.So with that quote he was talking about Krillin as the strongest tournament human fighter.

Plus,Tenshinhan is no longer a part of their group, so why include him? As he states he'll probably never see them again, and was basically out of the series. Toriyama pretty much killed the character at that point.
-Yamcha hasn't seen, or sensed Tenshinhan in seven years. He wasn't even thinking about Tenshinhan, because he's been gone for seven years, and will never see him again
-Marron wouldn't know who Tenshinhan was anyhow "Your dad is the strongest fighter here, at least strongest human, well, after this one guy you don't know".

Later,Toriyama is behind daizenshuu who states that Tenshinhan is not human.
The fact is that if Toriyama wanted to say that Krillin is stronger than Tenshinhan he would bring him to the tournament,Dende could locate him immediately,but no he just wanted to make krillin the strongest human in the group and to accomplish that goal
he had to take Tenshinhan out of the group.
Vegeta was called a human by Goku also later on in the show,so does that mean that Vegeta is a human.Nope it doesn´t. Even the other sayans are called humans several times.


The characters get as strong as the plot determines...
This is only as crazy as you let it be... Your preconceived notions of humans strength are the only reason to downgrade them so much
That's it!



Akira Toriyama in the Daizenshuu 4 states that Tenshinhan continued to train hard during those 7 years after the Cell saga. He explains that Tenshinhan's relocating all the time, looking for better training locations, is the reason why Lunch never found him.
krillin on the other hand says that he stopped shaving his head because he stopped training. Gohan says this in Chapter 426.
meaning that Krillin gave up,he wasn't training anymore.
Look at the face of this chump, chump krillin never surpassed Tenshinhan EVER.