Tenshinhan's tecniques explained in the Daizenshuu

Tenshinhan
Kamehameha [kamehameha]

1-Deflection [~hanekaeshi]
2-Kiai Extinguisher [kiai keshi]
3-Ki Blast [kikouha]
Kikoho [kikouhou=”Ki Manipulation Cannon”]

4-Shin~ [shin~; lt. “new”]
5-Beam Eyes [kousengan]
6-Shishin no Ken [shishin no ken; lt. “Four-Body Fist”]
7-Shiyouken [shiyou ken; lt. “Four-Arm Fist”]
8-Taiyo-ken [taiyou ken; lt. “Fist of the Sun”]
9-Dodonpa [dodon pa]
10-Haikyuuken [haikyuu ken; lt. “Volleyball Fist”]
11-Bukujutsu [bukuu jutsu]
12-Machinegun Thrust [mashingan-zuki]
13-Mafuuba [Mafuuba; lt. “Demon Seal Wave”]








1-
Shishin no Ken [Fist of Four Bodies]
First Appearance: Chapter 178
Category: combo
People: Tenshinhan
Special Characteristics: A technique that Tenshinhan used during his fight with Goku at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai. Using the body-splitting abilities that are characteristic of the Three-Eyed People, he lunges into a combo attack. He surrounds his opponent on four sides and fires ki blasts from his hands. Then, when his opponent jumps into the air to avoid the ki blasts, he fires a strange beam from his eyes. However, its weakness is that because he divided his power between four people, his attack power, defense power, and all the rest become 1/4th their usual. (Daizenshuu 2, p.208/Daizenshuu 4, p.69, p.115)

2-Shiyouken [Fist of Four Arms]
First Appearance: Chapter 132
Category: special
People: Tenshinhan
Special Characteristics: A unique attack technique where he forms protuberances from his shoulder blades, which he then changes into arms. Tenshinhan is the only one capable of using this technique, which is largely related to the abilities he was born with. In short, like the Shishin no Ken, this is also a technique that takes advantage of the special abilities of his ancestors, the Three-Eyed People. Tenshinhan used this technique during his fight with Goku during the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai. Unleashing an opening-free attack with his four arms, Goku wasn’t able to seize the opportunity to counterattack. (Daizenshuu 2, p.206/Daizenshuu 4, p.114)

Kaio-Ken
First Appearance: Chapter 226
Category: ki manipulation
People: Son Goku
Special Characteristics: A technique that instantly amplifies the ki inside one’s body, multiplying all that person’s abilities, including power, speed, defense, etc. Since it makes one capable of utilizing battle power many times their own ability, it is extraordinarily effective during battles with formidable opponents. However, because it is impossible to multiply excessively far beyond one’s abilities, experimenting with an unreasonably high Kaio-Ken might destroy one’s own body. When the user’s battle power is 8,000, their limit is x2, and when they are at 3 million the limit is x10. However, since real battles are harsh, Goku often had to use Kaio-Ken above those limits. The Kaio-Ken’s designer is the North Kaio, but Goku was the first person to be able to master it. (Daizenshuu 2, p.212/ Daizenshuu 4, p.113)


3-Kiai Extinguisher
First Appearance: Chapter 170
Category: ki manipulation
People: Tenshinhan, Son Goku
Special Characteristics: A technique where you extinguish a ki manipulation-type attack merely by firing a kiai. Tenshinhan instantly extinguished the Super Dodon-pa that Tao Pai Pai fired at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai, and Goku did the same to Nappa’s ki blast.



4-Kikoho [Ki Manipulation Cannon]
First Appearance: Chapter 133
Category: ki manipulation
People: Tenshinhan
Special Characteristics: The secret weapon of the Tsuru-sen School. It concentrates a kiai into one point, then releases it in a single burst. Its main difference between ki blast-type techniques is that its trajectory cannot be seen. Its destructive power is formidable enough to instantly obliterate the Tenkaichi Budoukai arena. Indeed, it is characteristic of the techniques from the Tsuru-sen School, whose objective is to mercilessly kill people. Because this technique heavily uses up one’s internal energy, it can only be used to decide the match in a single shot. (Daizenshuu 2, p.206/Daizenshuu 4, p.111)


5- Shin~ [New~]
First Appearance: Chapter 373
People: Tenshinhan
Special Characteristics: A technique that increases the force of the Kikoho. An attack that becomes possible when one has improved their abilities through intense training. Tenshinhan fired this technique to stop Cell from moving when Cell was trying to absorb No.18, but he used up all of his power and collapsed. (Daizenshuu 4, p.112)


6- Kamehameha
First Appearance: Chapter 14
Category: ki manipulation
People: Kame-sennin, Son Goku, Son Gohan, Yamcha, Jacky Chun, Krillin, Son Gohan (grandpa), Tenshinhan, Cell, Majin Buu (good, evil, pure)
Special Characteristics: A ki manipulation technique thought up by Kame-sennin. It is a technique that condenses ki into one point and then fires it. The technique’s force changes based on the strength of its user’s ki, and if mastered it also becomes possible to control its force. Son Goku soon picked up this technique, perhaps because of his ki training with Son Gohan (grandpa), or perhaps due to his special characteristics as a Saiya-jin. Tenshinhan also easily copied it. From this, it can be said that it is possible to use the Kamehameha merely by being able to control one’s ki. (Daizenshuu 2, p.202/Daizenshuu 4, p.111)
Anime: The first person to use it in the movies is Kame-sennin in “The Legend of Shenron”. Goku picked it up after seeing Kame-sennin’s technique (Daizenshuu 6, p.16). In “A Dangerous Pair!! Super Warriors Can’t Rest”, Goku, Gohan, and Goten implement a three-person Father-Son Kamehameha. It obliterated the formidable enemy Broli (Daizenshuu 6, p.124). In “The Rebirth of Fusion!! Goku and Vegeta”, a fake Goku that appeared in Janenba’s hand fired one (Daizenshuu 6, p.142).



7- Deflection
First Appearance: Chapter 118
People: Tenshinhan
Special Characteristics: A technique where by judging the timing of a Kamehameha’s approach, he fires a kiai to deflect the Kamehameha back at his opponent. He used this on Yamcha’s Kamehameha during the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai




8- Kousengan(beam eyes)
First Appearance: Chapter 149
Category: ability
People: Piccolo Daimao, Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Freeza,
Special Characteristics: They attack their opponents by firing a destructive beam from both eyes with a sharp glance. Its force is in proportion to the user’s power. It’s an attack that takes advantage of innate abilities.

9- Taiyou-Ken [Fist of the Sun]
First Appearance: Chapter 124
Category: ki manipulation
People: Tenshinhan, Krillin, Son Goku, Cell
Special Characteristics: A Tsuru-sen School technique. Tenshinhan first used it during his fight with Goku at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai [he actually first uses it against Jacky Chun]. Gathering ki in his upper body, he converts it to light energy and radiates it out in front of his face. Blinding the opponent’s eyes, this is used when retreating from battle. The amount of light is connected to the strength of the person’s ki, and the light source will become stronger the more ki the user has. The first person from outside the Tsuru-sen School to use this technique was Goku. (Daizenshuu 4, p.113)



10- Dodonpa
First Appearance: Chapter 86
Category: ki manipulation
People: Tao Pai Pai, Chaozu, Tenshinhan
Special Characteristics: A Tsuru-sen School assassination secret weapon thought up by Tsuru-sennin. Concentrating ki in their fingertips, with a cry of “Dodon-pa!!”, they fire a thin, sharp, arrow-like ki at the opponent, inflicting damage. In order to be certain to kill the opponent in one hit, it is fired to aim at vital spots such as the heart. However, its attack range isn’t as wide as the Kamehameha, and a person with a high battle rating can stop this technique with the palm of their hands. During their battle in the Karin Holy Land where the dragonballs were, Tao Pai Pai knocked Son Goku out with this technique. (Daizenshuu 2, p.205)



11- Haikyuu-Ken [Volleyball Fist]
First Appearance: Chapter 129
Category: physical martial arts
People: Tenshinhan
Special Characteristics: A technique held in reserve to finish off opponents that have taken a fair amount of damage. True to its name’s origin [“Volleyball Fist”], he commences a three stage attack that imitates volleyball. It’s a fearsome combo attack: tossing his opponent high in the air, just as they come down he punches them for a receive. Next, he hits them with an intense two-fisted strike, knocking them down for a toss. Finally, he does an attack, jumping into the air and hitting the opponent snapshot, knocking them into the ground. He displayed it at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai. (Daizenshuu 2, p.206)

12- Bukujutsu
First Appearance: Chapter 119
Category: ki manipulation
People: Krillin, Son Goku, Son Gohan, Son Goten, Chaozu, Tenshinhan, Videl, others
Special Characteristics: As a unique technique of the Tsuru-sen School, it seems that Tsuru-sennin is the one who thought it up. By emitting ki from the entire body, one moves as if fluttering through the air. It’s a basic ki manipulation technique, on par with the ki blast. Like Videl, anyone can do it merely be learning how to use ki. Also, Krillin and Goku learned this technique through self study. The speed the user moves through the air with Bukujutsu is related to their level of skill and the extent of their ki. Those aliens who can fly, such as Piccolo, move through the sky using the same principle as Bukujutsu. Kame-sennin never used this technique, perhaps because he had Kinto-un and Baby Gamera. (Daizenshuu 4, p.113)


13- Mashingan-zuki(Machinegun Thrust)
First Appearance: Chapter 128
Category: physical martial arts
People: Tenshinhan
Special Characteristics: A technique where he unleashes a stream of jabs, similar to how a machinegun fires bullets. Those attacked are not given any time to defend themselves. During the finals of the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai, he drove Goku into a nasty predicament.

14- Mafuuba [Demon Seal Wave]
First Appearance: Chapter 135
Category: special
People: Kami, Kame-sennin, Tenshinhan, Mutaito
Special Characteristics: A secret art which Kame-sennin’s master, Mutaito, devised in order to seal up Piccolo Daimao, the incarnation of evil. Firing all one’s life energy from the palm of your hands, this creates a violent, spiraling wind which draws in the opponent, sealing them like this into an airtight container affixed with magic charms. A normal person will perish when they use this secret art. Kame-sennin fired it at the revived Piccolo Daimao in exchange for his own life, but it ultimately failed. (Daizenshuu 2, p.207/Daizenshuu 4, p.113)


Credit goes to herms

Dragon ball Z/Akira Toriyama's battle power definition and FAQ

Toriyama's answer about battle powers in an interview!!!!

What’s the secret of winning in battle?

Akira Toriyama:"When it comes to battle, the most important thing is KI SIZE, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe"

KIKOHO HAS ALL THESE THINGS
If it doesn't come from Tenshinhan's ki, then where does it come from? There is no external source for any of these ki attacks
The fact is, Kikouhou is focusing your ki directly into your hands, and releasing it. To use all of your ki would kill you (as seen in the Nappa battle), but Tenshinhan is able to control it so that he doesn't use up 100%, especially come Shinkikouhou. That's why it's dangerous because of its power; "its power" is caused by the fact that it uses up a great deal of ki, and your ki is your spirit force/etc.
Kamehameha is not shown to be capable of using up such large fractions of the user's ki, and thusly does not do as much proportional damage.
It is entirely feasible that one of his Kikouhou could be more powerful than a single attack from Piccolo or Gokuu, because neither of them possess techniques that can use such a high percentage of their power at once.

Goku had already taken out his weight clothing by that point, and, as shown in the battle against Radtiz, besides special moves, that's the only thing which change DB Goku power level
Besides everything else, there's the simple fact that the Kikoho is only powerful because most of Tenshinhan's ki is used to fuel it. However, The kikoho that Tenshinhan used against Buu didn't make Tenshihan die[VS Nappa], fall uncouncious[VS Cell], or even get tired[VS Budokai Arena... er... Goku].




Tenshinhan IN THE MANGA ABOUT GOKU FIGHTING FREEZA AND THE USE OF KAIÔKEN: "At his level of training, he should be able to multiply his power up to a factor of 10!"

Tenshinhan sees Goku's max without straining himself to be a factor of 10, and again reiterates that the Kaio-ken still multiplies by folds.

Goku: "I...I could try a Kaio-ken increase to 20 times...but I don't know if my body can handle it..."
As goku got stronger he could multiply his own power more.
Goku at 8,000 could only do 4x at best
Goku at around 3 millions could do 20x
Yet you couldn't possibly think goku at around 100,000 could do 20x or in Tenshinhan's case 10,000x.

So the stronger you have Tenshinhan, the more the neo kikoho multiplier makes sense.

Tenshinhan saying he is going to use KaiôKen's techniques isn't good enough?
He has to both say he's going to use them. Then mention it 10 other times. Then yell Kaioken when he uses the attack. Then explain to Cell that the Neo Kikoho uses Kaioken-esk skills. Then write "I'm using King Kai's fucking Techniques' all over his muscular body, before some biased fanboys admit it?
The Neo Kikoho has no psychic energy in it. The name meaning itself has no mentioning of granting the user power to push or hold back foes 10,000x stronger than yourself. It's a pure destructive power force that's all coming from Tenshinhan.

And actually the kikoho can be used as proof of something. For Tenshinhan to be as weak as some of you biased retards put him, maybe even weaker than captain ginyu...lol He shouldn't be able to output 10,000x his strength 10 times in a row at all and make semi-perfect cell drool in an inescapable pit.
I couldn't even deal with Tenshinhan pulling off a lucky one tri-beam without going boom...but around ten times each over 10,000x his normal power??! loooool

If you use the theory of life force (which is denied by the manga)... Then shouldn't self destructing also amp you're attack around 10,000x you're natural strength?
For Tenshin to be under 1,000,000 and expel an attack 10,000x his strength 10 times is far more unbelievable than thinking Tenshinhan was indeed much over a million just training on earth under Sensei Kaiô training methods for 3 years.

Toriyama disregards fanboyism over what his plot is calls for. You can clearly see this by how humans can be over 3 times more powerful in under a year when training in urgency in the saiyan saga. How is it not more believable that humans can gain this growth when training in urgency for 3 years? Thinking humans are bound by this "human wall" really is a dumb assumption. Humans have broken this wall as early as dragon ball times. They shouldn't even be called human anymore. More like super human. So comparing their growth to at least half what a saiyan's growth gain would be (without zenkai) isn't wrong at all.

Agree that Tenshinhan shouldn't be "logically" be anywhere in the millions because he's only a human and is not a saiyan nor a namekian warrior. But you guys have to remember ...humans have broken this "human wall" as early as db times. Looking at krillin because he's a human when he first made his appearance in dragonball you'd never think he'd be as strong as he is now. Plus tenshinhan has alien blood making him in a league of his own.

Someone is going to have to give a good explanation how Tenshinhan can do a feat that android 16 couldn't even dream of doing. Being at a power level less than 100,000 as some of you retards put him and using the neo tri-beam to expel an attack 10,000x his normal strength in continuous rains of 10 times without blowing up or dying of fatigue after the first strike, simply isn't possible at all.
Think about it this way. Each energy attack in Dragon Ball uses a proportionally-fixed amount of the user's "ki".

If Goku has 1000 "ki points", then "Kamehameha" allows him to direct 1% of his total "ki", or 10 "ki points"

If Tenshinhan has 100 "ki points", then "Kikoho" allows him to direct 25% of his total "ki", or 25 "ki points"

Goku would still have more energy than Tenshinhan and more physical strength because of his higher "ki rating", but Tenshinhan can direct more energy at once using the "Kikoho".



Question:
The power of the Kikoho isn't derived from the users power, rather it multiplies its power and uses the users lifeforce. If it was Ten's own power, that would mean Ten > Artificial Human 16 +Piccolo +#17+#18 etc

Answer:Are you fucking retarded??????????????????????There is no life force involved according to the precious manga.Furthermore,using Toriyama definition of battle power:
When it comes to battle, the most important thing is ki size, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe.


Kikoho means ki size and control,all these things are represented by Shin Kikoho.loooooool
Where is it stated that the "Kikoho" technique "multiplies" the power of the user? The attack draws energy from the hidden potential (similar to the "Kamehameha") and spiritual force of the user, which would mean that it's -still- using Tenshinhan's own power -- it's just ultimately fatal if overused.
Meaning that Tenshinhan's hidden potential would be at least in the range of a supressed semi-perfect Cell,considering that Shin Kikoho holds Cell in that form.

Original translation from the original japanese manga who proves there isn't life force involved:
Kame Sennin "...The "Chi Cannon"... a move of enormous destructive force... many times more powerful than even a Kamehameha... its power is so colossal, in fact, that the drain on one's own energy is devastating... warriors have been known to die by using it... and even if one survives, one's life is shortened... that evil Tsuru-sen'nin... teaching him a move that should be never taught...

"It's a technique with the potential for incredible destructive energy*... Several times more than even the Kamehameha..."

*Nothing about pushing back the opponent. Hakairyoku is a pretty straightforward word (destructive energy/power). You cannot get the idea that the Kikoho is a mere pusing attack from this text.


Some biased retarded fans forget to mention that it's power comes from Tenshinhan's ki. It is a strong attack, but it's strength comes from his ki. Also, notice that that doesn't mean that Cell Saga Tenshinhan > Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, A-16, A-17, A-18 etc. It means that Tenshinhan can fire ten blasts which are stronger than anything those people can make and fall unconscious.

But remember that it's still his ki, and... points to Nappa's fight... Using the kikoho(which can't be that much worse than the shin kikoho, Goku even calls that new attack only kikoho) with all his ki in one blast Tenshinhan only stops Nappa's movement, and dies. This is a worse result than the one from the blasts against Cell and he used all his ki in one blast, instead of few blasts.
Tenshinhan also doesn't looks tired after using Kikoho to deflect Buutensks energy blast.

And before "Super" Buu kicked Tenshinhan he thought to himself "Hey, normally I just whack people with my full strength since I'm evil, but I'm only going to hit -this- guy lightly doing my hardest to not kill him since he's such an attractive man."lol
However,0,00001 of Super Buutenks power was above a 50% freeza.lol



Tenshinhan also dodges a laser that even base Goku had trouble with, and keeps up with Piccolo(to an extent) who is in the megamillions. Thats proof right there, that Tenshinhan is not /10000th of Piccolo's power. a PL: 50,000 can’t dodge with the same ability as a PL: 10,000,000+
Piccolo flew at top speed to assist Trunks against A-18. Tenshinhan followed, also at top speed with a fuzzy aura. By some retard levels, Piccolo should have reached A-17 before Tenshinhan even left the ground. As it is, Piccolo was about 2-5 times faster at most, probably even less.
Another evident point is that if Gero is 30,000,000 and Yamcha is 2,000,000 then Gero becomes considerably stronger(6.6%) from absorbing him. If Gero is 30,000,000 and Yamcha is 50,000 then Gero becomes fuck(+0.16%) all stronger. Since Gero said that Yamcha is a good source of power, and not a useless and pathetic source of power,it is obvious he would eb in the millions.

Alongside with Piccolo and Tenshinhan Goku said to A-20:
“…We’ll tear you to pieces…” and all of them were in battle stances.


dumb question: Vegeta in SSJ form deflects kikoha blast from Boo. Whats your point?


Answer:So you're implying that the difference between Tenshinhan and "Super" Buu (+ Gotenks and Piccolo) is the same as the difference between Super Saiya-jin Vegeta and a less powerful form of Majin Buu? That would mean that Tenshinhan is ridiculously strong and wouldn't help the position you've advocated thus far, so I'm going to assume you just didn't understand what you were saying.looool
Finally,future base gohan is owning easily young super sayajin Trunks
which means base sayajins were above 150 millions.Get over it fucking retards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!loooooooooooooooool


Concluding, according to Toriyama battle power definition Tenshinhan's battle power was certainly and easily in the mid millions.

Ages of the characters

Later I'll make a post listing all these birth years that I used to make this.

Pre-DragonBall
Piccolo Daimao’s Rampage; Age 461
Kame-sennin: 31
Tsuru-sennin: 31? (presumably about as old as Kame-sennin)
Tao Pai Pai: 2
Uranai Baba: Over 211 (began divining in Age 250)
Piccolo Daimao: 0
Kami-sama: A little over 200 (presumably not very old when the disaster on Namek occurred in 261)
Karin-sama: About 511

Dracula Man: 285
Mummy-kun: 511

Sea Turtle: 698

Destruction of Planet Vegeta; Age 737
Goku: 0
Vegeta: 5
Nappa: 25-34
Raditz: 10-20?
Grandpa Gohan: 79

Bulma, Yamcha, Tenshinhan: 4
Kuririn: 1
Yajirobe: 2

Main Series (DragonBall)
Search for the DragonBalls; Age 749
Goku: 12
Bulma: 16
Sea Turtle: 986 (according to anime)
Kame-sennin: 319
Oolong: 9
Yamcha: 16
Puar: 9
Chi Chi: 12
Toninjinka (Rabbit Gang boss): 51
Pilaf: 34
Shenlong: 279

Vegeta: 17

The 21st Tenkaichi Budoukai and the Red Ribbon Army; Age 750
Goku: 13
Kuririn: 14
Jacky Chun/Kame-sennin: 320
Giran: 33
Ran-Fan: 24
Namu: 29
Yamcha: 17

Bulma: 17
Oolong: 10
Puar: 10

Sno: 10
Murasaki: 35
Blue: 28

Arale Norimaki: 5 (posing as 18-year old)
Senbei Norimaki: 28
Midori Norimaki: 23
Turbo Norimaki: 1
Tsuru-rin Tsun: 20
Tsuku-tsun Tsun: 18
Tarou Soramame: 20
Pisuke Soramame: 18
Akane Kimidori: 18
Oboccha Man: 3 (posing as 18-year old)

Tao Pai Pai: 291
Karin-sama: About 800

Uranai Baba: Over 500
Dracula Man: 574
Mummy-kun: 800
Grandpa Gohan: 92 (but stopped aging when he died)

Pilaf: 35
Shenlong: 280

The 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai and Piccolo Daimao; Age 753
Goku: 16
Kuririn: 17
Yamcha: 20
Jacky Chun/Kame-sennin: 323
Tenshinhan: 20
Chaozu: 15
Man-Wolf: 34
King Chapa: 43

Bulma: 20
Oolong: 13
Puar: 13

Tsuru-sennin: 323?

Pilaf: 38
Piccolo Daimao: 292
King: Over 40? (been reigning for 20 years, presumably not less than 20 when he took throne)
Yajirobe: 18

Karin-sama: Over 800
Mister Popo: Over 1000
Kami-sama: Around 492
Shenlong: 283

The 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai; Age 756
Goku: 19
Kuririn: 20
Yamcha: 23
Tenshinhan: 23
Chi Chi: 19
Tao Pai Pai: 297
Shen/Kami-sama: 495
Ma Junior: 3

King Chapa: 46
Yajirobe: 21
Chaozu: 18

Bulma: 23
Oolong: 16
Puar: 16
Kame-sennin: 326
Tsuru-sennin: 326?

"Z" Era
Raditz Invades; Age 761
Goku: 24
Gohan: 4
Piccolo: 8
Kuririn: 25
Yamcha: 28

Tenshinhan: 28
Yajirobe: 26
Chaozu: 23

Bulma: 28
Chi Chi: 24
Oolong: 21
Puar: 21
Kame-sennin: 331
Kami-sama: 500

Raditz: 35-45?
Nappa: 49-58
Vegeta: 29

The Battles with Vegeta and Freeza; Age 762
Goku: 25 (physically still 24)
Gohan: 5
Piccolo: 9
Kuririn: 26
Yamcha: 29
Tenshinhan: 29
Yajirobe: 27
Chaozu: 24

Bulma: 29
Chi Chi: 25
Oolong: 22
Puar: 22
Kame-sennin: 332
Kami-sama: 501
Shenlong: 292

Nappa: 50-59
Vegeta: 30

Saichourou: Over 500

Garlick Jr Returns; Age 763
Gohan: 6
Sea Turtle: 1000

Trunks Appears; Age 764
Goku: 27 (physically 26)
Gohan: 7
Vegeta: 32
Piccolo: 11

Kuririn: 28
Yamcha: 31
Tenshinhan: 31
Yajirobe: 29
Chaozu: 26

Bulma: 31
Chi Chi: 27
Oolong: 24
Puar: 24
Kame-sennin: 334
Kami-sama: 503
Shenlong: 294

Trunks: 17

The Androids and Cell Games; Age 767
Goku: 30; physically 29 at first, but physically 30 after training in the Room of Spirit and Time
Gohan: 10; physically 11 at the Cell Games
Vegeta: 35; physically 36 when Cell reaches his perfect form, and 37 at the Cell Games
Trunks (future): 19; physically 20 when Cell reaches his perfect form, and 21 at the Cell Games
Piccolo: 14; physically 15 at the Cell Games

Kuririn: 31
Yamcha: 34
Tenshinhan: 34
Yajirobe: 32
Chaozu: 29

Bulma: 34
Chi Chi: 30
Trunks (present): 1
Oolong: 27
Puar: 27
Kame-sennin: 337

Kami-sama: 506
Shenlong: 297

Mister Satan: 31

Cell: 6 (30, counting years in development)

The 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai and Majin Buu; Age 774
Goku: 37 (physically 30)
Gohan: 17 (physically 18)
Vegeta: 42 (physically 44)
Trunks (present): 8
Goten: 7

Mister Satan: 38
Videl: 17 or 18
Erasa: 18
Sharpna: 18

Idasa: 15
Ikose: 14

Piccolo: 21 (physically 22)
Kuririn: 38
Yamcha: 41
Tenshinhan: 41
Yajirobe: 39
Chaozu: 36

Bulma: 41
Chi Chi: 37
Oolong: 34
Puar: 34
Marron: 3
Kame-sennin: 344
Shenlong: 304
Sno: 34

East Kaioshin: Over 5 million
Kibito: Over 5 million
Elder Kaioshin: Over 75 million

Babidi: Over 5 million
Dabra: Over 300 years (probably far older)
Majin Buu: 5 million

Tarble Comes to Earth; Age 776
Goku: 39 (physically 32)
Gohan: 19 (physically 20)
Vegeta: 44 (physically 46)
Trunks (present): 10
Goten: 9

Videl: 19 or 20
Mister Satan: 40
Mister Buu: 5 million

Piccolo: 23 (physically 24)
Kuririn: 40
Yamcha: 43
Tenshinhan: 43
Yajirobe: 41
Chaozu: 38

Bulma: 43
Chi Chi: 39
Oolong: 36
Puar: 36
Marron: 5
Kame-sennin: 346

East Kaioshin: Over 5 million
Elder Kaioshin: Over 75 million

Tarble: 39? (he can't be any younger than Goku...)

The 28th Tenkaichi Budoukai; Age 784
Goku: 47 (physically 40)
Gohan: 27 (physically 28)
Vegeta: 52 (physically 54)
Trunks (present): 18
Goten: 17

Videl: 27 or 28
Mister Satan: 48
Mister Buu: 5 million

Piccolo: 31 (physically 32)
Kuririn: 48
Yamcha: 51
Tenshinhan: 51
Yajirobe: 49
Chaozu: 46

Bulma: 51
Chi Chi: 47
Oolong: 44
Puar: 44
Marron: 13
Kame-sennin: 354

Pan: 5
Bra: 4 or 6
Uub: 10

Future Trunks’ Timeline
The Androids Kill Everyone; Age 767
Gohan: 10
Trunks: 1
Bulma: 34

Gohan Dies; Age 780
Gohan: 23
Trunks: 14
Bulma: 47

The Time Machine is Completed; Age 783
Trunks: 17
Bulma: 50

Trunks Defeats the Androids; Age 785
Trunks: 19 (physically 21)
Bulma: 52

Trunks defeats Cell; Age 788
Trunks: 22 (physically 24)
Bulma: 55
Cell: 2 (26 counting years in development)

GT
The Search for the Ultimate DragonBalls and the Battle with Baby; Age 789
Goku: 52 (physically 45); reduced to physically 12 or so
Gohan: 32 (physically 33)
Vegeta: 57 (physically 59)
Trunks (present): 23
Goten: 22

Videl: 32 or 33
Mister Satan: 53
Mister Buu: 5 million

Piccolo: 36 (physically 37)
Kuririn: 53
Yamcha: 56
Tenshinhan: 56
Yajirobe: 54
Chaozu: 51

Bulma: 56
Chi Chi: 52
Oolong: 49
Puar: 49
Marron: 18
Kame-sennin: 359

Pan: 10
Bra: 9 or 11
Uub: 15

East Kaioshin: Over 5 million
Elder Kaioshin: Over 75 million

Pilaf: 74
Namu: 68

Doctor Mu: 49
Baby: 59-69

The Battle with Super No.17 and the Evil Dragons; Age 790
Goku: 53 (physically 13 or so)
Gohan: 33 (physically 34)
Vegeta: 58 (physically 60)
Trunks (present): 24
Goten: 23

Videl: 33 or 34
Mister Satan: 54
Mister Buu: 5 million

Piccolo: 37 (physically 38)
Kuririn: 54
Yamcha: 57
Tenshinhan: 57
Yajirobe: 55
Chaozu: 52

Bulma: 57
Chi Chi: 53
Oolong: 50
Puar: 50
Marron: 19
Kame-sennin: 360

Pan: 11
Bra: 10 or 12
Uub: 16

East Kaioshin: Over 5 million
Elder Kaioshin: Over 75 million

Yi Xing Long (1-Star Dragon): 28
Liang Xing Long (2-Star Dragon): 40
San Xing Long (3-Star Dragon): 16
Si Xing Long (4-Star Dragon): 37
Wu Xing Long (5-Star Dragon): 28
Liu Xing Long (6-Star Dragon): 41
Qi Xing Long (7-Star Dragon): 16

100 Years Later; Age 890
Pan: 111
Goku Jr: ?
Goku: 153; physically who knows?

Credit herms







Elder Kaioshin: Sealed away about 75 million ago according to Daizenshuu 7, so must be even older
Majin Buu, East Kaioshin, Kibito, Babidi: According to Daizenshuu 7, Buu was created about 5 million years ago, so that’s how old he is. East Kaioshin, Kibito, and Babidi were all around back then, so they’re even older.

Sea Turtle: According to the Garlic Jr. filler arc he’s a thousand years old in Age 763, so he’d be born in 237 Before Age.
Mummy-kun: 50 Before Age (Daiz 7)
Karin: He tells Goku that he’s about 800 when they first meet.
Dracula Man: Age 176 (Daiz 7)
Uranai Baba: Daiz 7’s timeline says she began divining in Age 250, so she must be older
Kami-sama: The disaster on Planet Namek that he escaped from is said to be 500 years ago in the series (Age 261 in the Daiz 7 timeline), so he must be older than that, but not that much older, since he was a child at the time.
Kame-sennin: Age 430 (Daiz 7, SEG)
Tsuru-sennin: I guess he’s as old Kame-sennin (they were both young when Daimao was sealed away), so around Age 430
Tao Pai Pai: Age 459 (Daiz 7)

Piccolo Daimao: Age 461 (Daiz 7). I guess mentally he’d be as old as Kami.

Shenlong: Created in Age 470 (Daiz 7)
Grandpa Gohan: Age 658 (Daiz 7)

Toninjinka: Age 698 (Daiz 7)
King Chapa: Age 710 (Daiz 7)

Nappa: Daizenshuu 7 says that he was in his fifties when he died (in Age 762), so that means he was born in Age 703-712
Pilaf: Age 715 (Daiz 7)
Murasaki: Age 715 (Daiz 7)
Giran: Age 717 (Daiz 7)
Man-Wolf: Age 719 (Daiz 7)

Baby: The GT Perfect Files say he was created between Age 720-730
Namu: Age 721 (Daiz 7)
Senbei: Age 722 (Daiz 7)
Blue: Age 722 (Daiz 7)
Ran-Fan: Age 726 (Daiz 7)
Midori: Age 727 (Daiz 7)
Tsuru-rin Tsun: Age 730 (Daiz 7)
Tarou Soramame: Age 730 (Daiz 7)

Vegeta: Age 732 (Daiz 7, SEG)
Tsuku-tsun Tsun: Age 732 (Daiz 7)
Pisuke Soramame: Age 732 (Daiz 7)
Akane Kimidori: Age 732 (Daiz 7)
Bulma: Age 733 (Daiz 7, SEG); flat-out said to be 16 at the start of the series.
Yamcha: Age 733 (Daiz 7, SEG)
Tenshinhan: Age 733 (Daiz 7, SEG)

King: Enthroned in 733 according to the anime and Daiz 7, so he must be much older.

Yajirobe: Age 735 (SEG)
Kuririn: Age 736 (Daiz 7, SEG)
Mister Satan: Age 736 (SEG)

Son Goku: Age 737 (Daiz 7, SEG)
Chi Chi: Age 737 (Daiz 7, SEG)
Chaozu: Age 738 (SEG)

Oolong: Age 740 (Daiz 7)
Puar: Age 740 (Daiz 7)
Sno: Age 740 (Daiz 7)

Doctor Mu: According to the GT Perfect Files he was created by Baby in Age 740

Arale: Created in Age 745 (Daiz 7). At the time, Senbei passed her off as a 13-year old.
Pigero: Said to be 15 when he meets Gohan in Age 761, so he’d be born in Age 746

Oboccha Mach: Created in Age 747 (Daiz 7). Poses as the same age as Arale, making him supposedly 15 at the time (neither of them look anywhere close to 15 of course).

Turbo Norimaki: Age 749 (Daiz 7)

Piccolo: Age 753 (series, Daiz 7, SEG). Probably mentally older.

Videl: Age 756 (Daiz 7), Age 757 (SEG)
Sharpa: Age 756 (Daiz 7)
Erasa: Age 756 (Daiz 7)
Gohan: Age 757 (series, Daiz 7, SEG)

Idasa: Age 759 (series, Daiz 7)
Ikose: Age 760 (series, Daiz 7)

Trunks: Age 766 (series, Daiz 7)
Goten: Age 767 (series, Daiz 7)

Cell: Daiz 7 says his development began in 762 and he was born in 786.

Marron: Age 771 (Daiz 7)
Uub: Age 774 (series, Daiz 7)

Pan: Age 779 (Daiz 7)
Bra: Age 778 (her Daiz 7 bio) or Age 780 (Daiz 7 timeline, GT Perfect Files)

Yi Xing Long: “Born” when the dragonballs were used to revive those killed by Freeza and his men in Age 762 (GT Perfect Files)
Liang Xing Long: “Born” when the dragonballs were used to revive Bora in Age 750 (series)
San Xing Long: “Born” when the dragonballs were used to erase peoples’ memories of Majin Buu in Age 774 (GT Perfect Files)
Si Xing Long: “Born” when the dragonballs were used to restore Piccolo Daimao’s youth in Age 753 (series)
Wu Xing Long: “Born” when the dragonballs were used to restore Goku to life in Age 762 (series)
Liu Xing Long: “Born” when the dragonballs were used to get a pair of panties in Age 749 (series)
Qi Xing Long: “Born” when the dragonballs were used to revive those Vegeta killed at the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai in Age 774.

Raditz or Saibaiman who is stronger?

There is some controversy about who is stronger Raditz or Saibaiman.
The answer is given by Akira Toriyama.
Let's see:

It was stated by Toriyama in the Shenlong Times that Raditz was slightly superior battle strength-wise to the Saibaimen that means th e power level given in the daizenshuu 1500 is correct.
Toriyama wrote about the Saibaimen being weaker than Raditz in one of his memos to the anime staff, which was printed in the first DBZ Anime Special book. We added a (somewhat poor) scan of this as a late addition to the manga page of Kanzentai’s BP guide. Toriyama’s words are: "But their battle power is considerably high, at a level slightly inferior to Raditz" (しかし戦闘力はかなり高くラディッツより少し劣る程度).

As has been said, Nappa doesn’t actually say that the Saibaimen are equal to Raditz, just that they are comparable in terms of power (hitteki, which can be translated as “equal”, but only in a general sense, not any strict mathematical sense). For comparison, Sharpner uses the same word when he says that Videl is almost as strong as Mister Satan (and here Viz translates it as “rivals”).


1,500 was first used as Raditz's BP in Weekly Jump in 1989, back when the battle with Vegeta was still going on, and was used in Daizenshuu 7 in 1996, Landmark in 2003, and the SEG: Story Volume this year. It's also been used in video games like Kyoushuu! Saiya-jin (1990), Super Saiya Densetsu (1992), and Saiya-jin Raishuu this year.

Nappa's statement in the manga says something like "rival" instead of "equaling" Radditz, so that would support the argument a hell of a lot. Battle Power chart lists Raditz as having a BP of 1,500. People say it has to be wrong because a weaker opponent killed him, but that's a moot argument since the whole series is about defeating stronger people, and plus a Saibaiman (1,200) took out Yamcha who had 1480



if we're talking simply about the series, then we have to face the fact that no actual rules for battle powers are ever established. Sure, a higher number means a stronger fighter (though even this isn't ever stated), but when it comes to anything behind that, like how much difference a particular gap between battle powers makes, then there's nothing at all. You can try to derive rules from what we see, but the series isn't consistent. Nail at 42,000 can't harm the 530,000 Freeza at all, but a seriously wounded Goku who's at most 8,000 can wound the eye of Oozaru Vegeta who's around 180,000 (and at least much higher than 40,000). Similarly, Kuririn's Saibaimen-destroying ki attack doesn't harm Vegeta at all, but Yajirobe has no trouble slicing Oozaru Vegeta's tail off. Vegeta at 24,000 can defeat Dodoria regular Zarbon effortlessly, but Kaio-ken x3 Goku can't defeat Vegeta that easily, even though he should be higher than 24,000 and Vegeta at that time is much weaker than Dodoria and regular Zarbon. Goku's Kamehameha inflicts no damage on old Daimao when Daimao is using only 50% of his power, which is impossible to fit into Kame-sennin being 139 and Raditz-era Piccolo being 408. There's just no real logic to this, which makes sense because the series itself makes clear that battle powers are a flawed system used by aliens too spiritually dense and obsessed with power to sense ki like a proper warrior can.
So the answer is that Raditz power level of 1500 and Daizenshuu 7 is correct about this.


However,there are always dumb biased fanboys who refuse to accept facts and try to make a case to prove that they know more about dragon ball than Akira Toriyama.
Let'see some retarded comments made by delusional fanboys.

Question:The original dialogue was that the Saibamen rivaled Raditz battle power, not just comparable to his battle power. The actual word rivaled was used, and by definition, even in the original dialogue, the Saibamen are identical in strength to Raditz, making his battle power 1,200.

Answer:It was stated by Toriyama in the Shenlong Times that Raditz was slightly superior battle strength-wise to the Saibaimen.

Dumb statement:Then his own statement in the Shenlong Times is inaccurate, given that the dialogue he gave Nappa describing Raditz strength in comparison to the Saibamen clearly indicates equality, not around the same strength. Nappa clearly says that each Saibamen rivals Radittsu, and as I showed in the above post, rivals in that context means equal to.

Answer:OMFG fucking dumbass are you fucking retarded?Do you enjoy being made to look stupid???
You are saying that you know more about dragon ball than Akira Toriyama????????
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again the Mr.Dumb biased fuck tried to twist facts,however,
here are some more definitions of "rival" .


ri·val (rvl)n. 1. One who attempts to equal or surpass another, or who pursues the same object as another; a competitor.
2. One that equals or almost equals another in a particular respect.
"Rival" doesn't necessarily have to mean exactly equal. You don't need to be equal to someone in some aspect to rival them, just to be comparable. Vegeta also "rivals" Goku in power, but their powers are obviously not the same. Raditz is superior to the Saibamen.

Do you like getting thoroughly humiliated with your brainless biased statements????



Mr biased dumbass:"The Saibamen are Radittsu's rivals in strength", for if he did, then the definition you used would work. But he basically said, "Each Saibamen rivals Radittsu in strength", which means that the noun form definition doesn't work, whereas the verb form definition does.

In any case, given that gaps of hundreds in the Saiya-jin Saga were still substantial differences in battle power, it'd be impossible for Radittsu to be 1,500 and still be equal or near equal to a being with a battle power of 1,200. Furthermore, as said, he himself established he stood no chance against a blast with a battle power of 1,330, not knowing the nature of the attack.


Answer:OMFG conveniently,you skipped he 2nd possible definition of rival.Are you a mentally challenged brain dead pigling?

It is amazing how biased you are about this you fucking dumbass.
What is more amazing is the fact that in your delusional mind you believe to know more about dragon ball than Akira Toriyama.
Priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was stated by Toriyama in the Shenlong Times that Raditz was slightly superior battle strength-wise to the Saibaimen.
That's really all that needs to be said. Toriyama stated himself that the saibamen are slightly inferior to raditz period.

After getting bludgeoned for the umpteenth time this is all you have????? You need sleep. Rest and recuperate, you've been taken apart....again. You should be used to it by now.

Mr.dumbass:Toriyama contradicted himself.

Answer:OMFG Are you fucking retarded?
He clarified himself.
Android #16 stated Piccolo rivaled both #17 & #18, and we know he wasn't fighting Cell at full-potential, since he was stronger by a good bit. He didn't equal #17 until he went to full-strength and fought him equally. So, we know rival doesn't automatically mean they have the same level of power, because if it does--it means Weighted Piccolo=#17=#18, and we know that's not accurate.
They both use the term rival. I just showed a canon instance where the guy rivaling the others was not at the same level. In fact, that definitely shows that rival doesn't mean equal. Same power range? Maybe. Exactly equal? No. We know that isn't how it is here. In terms of Battle Power, the Cultivars rival Raditz; in terms of Battle Power, Fused Piccolo rivals the Androids. That's a clear example of it not meaning equal.
If Raditz is around 1.500 and the Cultivars are 1.200 they rival him in power.
Again if we're talking simply about the series, then we have to face the fact that no actual rules for battle powers are ever established. Sure, a higher number means a stronger fighter (though even this isn't ever stated), but when it comes to anything behind that, like how much difference a particular gap between battle powers makes, then there's nothing at all. You can try to derive rules from what we see, but the series isn't consistent. Nail at 42,000 can't harm the 530,000 Freeza at all, but a seriously wounded Goku who's at most 8,000 can wound the eye of Oozaru Vegeta who's around 180,000 (and at least much higher than 40,000). Similarly, Kuririn's Saibaimen-destroying ki attack doesn't harm Vegeta at all, but Yajirobe has no trouble slicing Oozaru Vegeta's tail off. Vegeta at 24,000 can defeat Dodoria regular Zarbon effortlessly, but Kaio-ken x3 Goku can't defeat Vegeta that easily, even though he should be higher than 24,000 and Vegeta at that time is much weaker than Dodoria and regular Zarbon. Goku's Kamehameha inflicts no damage on old Daimao when Daimao is using only 50% of his power, which is impossible to fit into Kame-sennin being 139 and Raditz-era Piccolo being 408. There's just no real logic to this, which makes sense because the series itself makes clear that battle powers are a flawed system used by aliens too spiritually dense and obsessed with power to sense ki like a proper warrior can.
Again you have been taken apart!!!!!

The Daizenshuu levels make as much sense as the manga ones. Then again, I'm speaking with a dumbass who thinks his own fan-made biased opinion is just as canon as the people who both made and own the fucking series. Ever heard of fanfiction? That's essentially what any statement that goes against their declarations and publications is.

Again you have been taken apart!!!!!
obliterated!!!!!!! Smashed to pieces!!!!!!!!!!!
You just keep getting clapped down. Anything else you want me to destruct?
I guess not.
Owned !!!!!

Dragonball Manga: Contradictions

You know that some mangatards love to discredit daizenshuu saying the retarded crap...
it's not in the fucking manga.lol
Toriyama couldn't have made everything correct and exact.
I will show contradictions that there are, and I will provide the most vital. I am not bashing the Manga, just clearing out for those that claim the Manga is 100% correct, and that Manga based curriculums are 100% true, then think again.
1-Goku didn't turn into Oozaru when he transported Boss Rabbit to the moon (and they were able to breathe in space without dying )
2- Bardock fought Freeza in Planet Vegeta`s orbit,again how the fuck he breathed in space??lol
3-GOKU VS CELL: Son Goku, destroyed Cell's brain, and later on when Cell, self destructs, he explains that his resurrection was due to the fact that a Cell from his brain survived the explosion. By this the Manga is implying that all the Z fighters had to do is destroy his brain which Son Goku did, so it is therefore a contradiction.In conclusion,Piccolo said that he could regenerate any amount of flesh as long as his brain was intact, so how come when Goku blew Cell's upper half off he could still regenerate? Don't tell me that his brain was actually located in his lower half, because when explaining how he became Super Perfect Cell he points to his head and even says that his core is located in his head.lol
4-Goku and Vegeta zenkais in Namek:
Goku is listed as 90,000 upon arrival on Namek. After a beat-down he heals up and jumps up in power to 3,000,000. "That's the zenkai thing" you say, "what's the problem? He got the same thing after the fight on Earth." Well, that time, he was beaten to within an inch of his life, healed up and then trained harder than anyone else in the universe had ever trained before - and that increased his strength about 10-fold (8,000 to 90,000). Now, on Namek he got beaten up, but not to the point he was back on Earth, and he got a 30-fold increase (90,000 to 3,000,000). There's the problem. He got a a worse beatdown and trained harder than anything imaginable and 'only' got a 10-fold increase. Suddenly he takes a few punches and gets a 30-fold increase? Also, Vegeta gets blasted through the heart, bleeds all over the place, passes out, and generally comes far closer to death than Goku did, yet gets less of a Zenkai than Goku on the "Base Goku = 3,000,000" scale. Body switching DOES NOT MATTER. That has NO effect on the Saiya-jin's body AT ALL and thus can't damage it. On top of this, Goku's beating asn't nearly as severe as the one he took on Earth. It WAS cappable of functioning. He could have survived without a regen tank. He was only put there so that he'd be able to help against Freeza later. Where as on Earth, he wouldn't have survived otherwise (Uh, hello? Iron Lung?). It's more than 3 times higher than ANYTHING Vegeta got for a boost and he was receiving superior Zenkai's the entire time. Alright. Let's look at Vegeta first since we've got the most info on him. Earth = 18,000. After a single Zenkai he's now at about 24,000 (IIRC). His second Zenkai probably put him into the low to mid 30,000's. His third most likely put him in the upper 60,000's to lower 70,000's. More than enough to stomp on Jeice, Ginyu in Goku's body, and the injured Ginyu.

Now we get to Vegeta's 'nap'. Obviously *something* was up with his body. He'd had a Senzu so he should have been in tip-top shape, but he wasn't. My thought is that the constant fighting had caused his Zenkai to continue beyond just the healing from the Senzu and that's why he felt odd. After this 'nap' his power is about 250k (just over 8 times more than when he fought Recoome). Then, Krillin blasts a hole THROUGH HIS CHEST and he's only moments from dieing before Dende finally heals him. And yet, his power boost is still less than 10x.

Now look at Goku. From 8k to 90k. And by most people's thoughts that's with 100g training and 4 Zenkais. Considering he was so throughly thrashed on Earth I'd say he was probably around 12k to 16k after the Vegeta fight. Still, even at 12k, that's only a 7.5 increase with training and 3 Zenkais.

Then, suddenly, when his body takes a beating LESS than that of what he got on Earth (less than what Vegeta got against Zarbon too, even) he jumps up more than 33 fold? No. No. No. Just no. The HIGHEST Zenkai we've seen is from Vegeta going up about 10x. Goku's been lucky by best estimation to get a 2x boost from his. 90k to 300k is a 3x boost. That's more reasonable for his gains than 33x.

5-In the Original Manga, Jisu gets ready to read Bejita's power level and he reads his battle power at " ..20,000!". Refer to Daizenshuu 7 and you see that in the battle power chart, Bejita's battle power for when Son Goku arrives on Planet Namek is 30,000. As far as we know this is the first place ever to give Bejita's battle power from that time as being 30,000. Look at the Kanzenban re-release of the Manga which featured things such as slightly revised artwork and a new ending by Toriyama-sensei, the dialogue from before Bejita fight Reccome is change so that Bejita's power level coincides with the Daizenshuu 7.

Many people say that Toriyama-sensei had nothing to do with any of the Daizenshuu's because he made the Dragonball Escheat in 1994, that is completely untrue. Also people say that he wasn't invovled in GT either, which is also false. In the past, it has been proved Toriyama's initial involvement in DragonBall GT via his early character and landscape designs in the daizenshuu and DBGT Perfect File books. Daizenshuu 6 ("MOVIES & TV SPECIALS"), in particular, showcases Toriyama's character designs for the likes of Coola (and his henchmen), movie 7's jinzôningen, Broli, Bojack, etc.
What about the general filler material in the TV show?Toriyama had nothing to do with any of that, right...? Not quite.It is certainly not the case that Toriyama wrote and "drew" every single episode in the TV series, but the recent anime guide Son Gokû Densetsu finally gives us a little glimpse into the clearly-overworked man's involvement in the TV series. There were many character designs Toriyama came up with for filler material, including Paikuhan, Dai-Kaiô, and the beginnings of King Vegeta. We also learn that for many story points, Toriyama would typically come up with a vague idea and leave a memo for the TV series staff to, essentially, go wild with and develop a full story from said idea. Some of these items included the back-history of the Saiyans and the Tsufurus for DBZ episode 20, the Z-Senshi's training with the "Ancient" Saiyans via Kami's Palace, and Lunch's persistent chasing of Tenshinhan. Yamcha's job as a baseball player was Toriyama-sensei's idea! Also remember cases such as Bardock, who was essentially a joint-collaboration between Akira Toriyama and Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru. In fact, Toriyama liked the idea so much, he ended up integrating it into his own canon storyline in the manga.
So please don't listen to dumb rumors retwisting or denying what took place because it is completely untrue.
6-The Super Saiyan legend:
Vegeta states at least three versions of the legend. One version is that a Super Saiyan emerges every thousand years. A second version is that a Super Saiyan hadn't appeared in over a thousand years (signifying that anyone could've become a Super Saiyan at anytime in Saiyan history). And in a third version, Vegeta states "Super Saiyans of legend", as in more than one. Whether or not he was speaking about more than one at a single point in history is unknown
7-Vegeta and Gohan's tails never growing back, as well as Goten and Trunks not being born with tails. (Simply a mistake by AT)
8-Magic stick
Goku: "This Kin-to'un(magic stick) you gave me is awesome!!"

Muten Roshi: "Of course it is! I got it straight from Kami-sama himself!"

Wrong Roshi got it from karin:
Goku: "Th-Then the Kinto'un that I got from the old turtle guy..."

Karin-sama: "Yes. I gave it to him long ago."

9-kame sennin with a power bellow 200 destroys the moon easily and vegeta with 18.000 has to recharge
to destroy the earth

10-Gravity training in dragon ball
Some dumb fanboys use gravity training as an example to prove that characters like Tenshinhan could not reach the high millions,guess what,gravity is an unreliable form of training, and cannot be used to determine any ones power level.
Some retards think that after the moment you train at gravity, you will become stronger to a point, and then not get any bonus from it.Vegeta was training in x150 after mastering x300, why would he do that if x150=x1 for him?lol
Goku could lift 390kg per arm at least(based on average arm weight and x100) at PL: 90,000.
When Goku trained at 10x earths gravity (and mastered it) on Kaio's planet, his base power level went up to "over 8.000". Now when he traveled to Namek he mastered training in 100xG. But after this training his power level was stated to be "About 90,000". So by training in 10x (100xG) the earlier gravity training, which was 10xG, his powerlevel went about 10 times up... So theoretically (with a linear relation) Goku in SSJ form, where his PL was about 150 million should be able to train in about 150.000xG! Toriyama didn't think about this after the Freeza saga, because Vegeta's training in 100xG ruins this theory :Vegeta is stated to have 180,000 kg (possibly more) as weight while training in the graviton for the androids, that means he could lift around nearly 200 tons thus Goku should be able to lift 100 tons with ease since his base form shouldn't be that much weaker than Vegeta's. But many things after the Freeza saga seems to be down powered and there are some inconsistencies.
Actually, if Goku were able to train in 100xG (before namek), he would weight near 10 tons in the gravity chamber. And it is ridiculous and a contradiction that he was unable to lift the 10 tons in his base form that the other Kaio suggested,and needed to turn SSJ... These 40-tons seems ridiculous for many reasons.




In the Buu saga, Goku is stronger than Vegeta yet he can barely handle 2 tonnes. He is at least 3,000,000 in base in that saga, so should be able to handle 13 tonnes. That means the weight lifting ability at different levels are flawed, meaning training that just increases weight, like gravity or weighted clothing, will be flawed and illogical.
When still preparing for the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai both Goku and Kuririn moved a gigantic rock simply by pushing it. That was when they were 12 and 13 and just had been training the Kame-Sennin style for a couple of months...























Then we have to deal with a fucking retard:
Dumb biased retarded statement:"...Gigantic rock??? It was a boulder that was lodged in the ground. "Simply?" It took everything they could muster to push it along for a few feet..."

Answer:OMFG are you fucking retarded?????????
See this image?





















"That is an 80 ton rock !!!!!looool Yes sir,you are a dumbass!!!!!

The rock that Goku moved after Roshi`s training was as big as this, if not bigger.
And by the end of dragon ball he lifted a giant-sized Piccolo
and Goku was the size of Piccolo`s finger when he lifted him.
As you can see manga has several mistakes.
So,don't listen to dumb rumors re twisting or denying daizenshuu just because things are not in the manga.
It seems that mangatards and some My Favourite Games fucking dumbasses got clapped down again!!!!!!!!!!!!!looooooooooool

Krillin versus Tenshinhan in the sayan saga

I already explained with math why Tenshinhan was a lot stronger than Krillin in the sayan saga.
Plus,Daizenshuu 7 with official numbers also state this fact and several quotes in the manga also sustain the fact that Tenshinhan was a lot stronger than Krillin,however,some krillin fanboys biased dumbasses decided to entertain us with some retarded funny comments.
Enjoy!!!Let the destruction begin!!!!!looooool

Krillin dumb biased fanboy:Krillin could actually dodge Nappa.

Answer:Wrong fucking dumbass!!!!!
When that happened Nappa wasn't powered up dumbass and he was a little out of balance.
Instead when Nappa attacked Tenshinhan he was giving his full power.
Do you remember what happened between Nappa and goku?
I bet you do,but a fucking biased dumbass like you just ignores it to make a dumb theory or case.
When Nappa wasn't powered up goku played with him,however when he powered up exactly like against Tenshinhan,he managed to trade a little with goku,he even surprised goku FUCKING DUMBASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Plus, the few times krillin hits Nappa he just caught Nappa off guard and Nappa was hardly even taking the fight seriously at that point.
Nappa specifically charged Tenshinhan fresh after powering up and Nappa was toying with Gohan and Kuririn,then krillin took advantage of Nappa's lack of attention.
Again you have been taken apart!!!!!
obliterated!!!!!!! Smashed to pieces!!!!!!!!!!!






Krillin dumb biased fanboy:he killed 4 of them with a single attack(or was it three). Anyhow, he did 10x the job Tienshinhan did.

Answer:OMFG Are you fucking retarded????????lool
Krillin's fantastic ki attack landed on Nappa and guess what fucking dumbass nothing happened,nothing!!!!!!!!!!Nappa's armor was clean like a mirror.
However,Tenshinhan's weakened kikoho shattered nappa's armor fucking dumbass!!!!lool
You have been destructed AGAIN!!!!!Smashed to pieces!!!!!!!!!!!
That's why you get bitchslapped and taken apart on the regular dumbass!!!!

Krillin dumb biased fanboy:Tienshinhan had probably enough power to do that, but he definitely lacked the proper Ki control.

Answer:It is Tenshinhan dumbass not Tien!!!!!!
OMFG Are you fucking retarded or just genetically stupid?????????????????
Tenshinhan was the one during dragon ball early days in the 22 world tournament who could control kikoho,a dangerous technique who can kill you if you don't have enough ki control.
That retarded made up myth that krillin has superior ki control than Tenshinhan is just retarded bullshit who goes against all the facts presented in the manga!!!!!
Krillin is the one who hasn't the proper ki control to compete with Tenshinhan.
Now put that in your pipe and smoke it DUMBASS!!!!

Krillin dumb biased fanboy:Tien was out of breath fighting one Cultivar, so there's no reason to assume he can emulate what Krillin do.

Answer:That's it!!!!!!!!!!!OMFG apart from naturally retarded are you fucking BLIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you enjoy being made to look stupid???lol
Here are the images from the fucking original manga:
































































Now,we know that you are retarded,we know that you are stupid as shit,we even know that 99,9%
of your brain is composed by shit.
However,we never suspected that apart from all that shit,your brain shit made you blind,definitely your brain shit passed through your eyes making you blind.lol
Do you see anyone panting in the original manga dumbass??????
No!!! You see in the anime Tenshinhan exhaling air and exhaling air isn't the same as being out of breath you fucking retard.
You just got owned pretty bad on this one.looool
Now the fucking facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tenshinhan got his arm knocked off in a direct confrontation when Nappa powered up to his maximum power, Tenshinhan stood back up, and still had enough Chi left to do a Ki-ko-hou.

Kuririn got two cheap shots that connected off, got him once while he was distracted, and was later knocked out of the fight by a Chi blast that didn't even hit him.Afer that Krillin couldn't even move like a pussy.lol

Kuririn got defeated by an attack that didn't even hit him. Tenshinhan stood back up after 2 attacks that did hit him and he was ready to fight.



Kuririn only hits Nappa because they were either cheap shots or he was distracted, when Nappa actually got seriously annoyed and attacked him, he was thrown out of the fray like a fucking maggot, by an attack that didn't even hit him.
yeah Krillin is a pussy and a lot weaker than Tenshinhan!!!!loool
Krillin pissed on his pants when Tenshinhan and Piccolo fought against the cyborgs.
Krillin is in fact a pussy.

Tenshinhan took 2 direct attacks from Nappa, and got back up on his feet, that's something not even Piccolo did easily.

The fact that he charged Tenshinhan in a powered up state and hit him with enough force that he ripped Ten's arm off is proof enough.
Tenshinhan took more damage than Kuririn and got back up on his feet. Getting your arm broken off, and slammed into the ground and surviving getting up is more than prove enough.
Plus, Nappa hadn't even touched Kuririn until the three-hour break had concluded .

In fact, Kuririn wasn't even hit when he went down, it was the aftershock of an explosion that took him down.lol
Tenshinhan had his arm ripped off and Nappa also slammed him into the ground with a kick and Tenshinhan still survived and he got up ready to fight.
Even Nappa was surprised saying that Tenshinhan was tough.
Kuririn wasn't even touched until shockwaves took him out. Not the actual blast, but the shockwaves. Not comparable, retard. Kuririn looked weaker against Nappa when Nappa was serious than Tenshinhan did. That's a fact!!!!!!You got obliterated again,now put back together so I could obliterate you again!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Krillin dumb biased fanboy:Nappa took the full power of Tienshinhan head on and dodged the Kienzan because it would have seriously injured him or killed him.

Krillin>Everyone else

Answer:Again with this shit?Its Tenshinhan,not Tien!
Whattttttttttttttt?And the nominees for THE I GOT BITCH SLAPPED THE HARDEST FOR Retarded statements are krillin fanboys
Please,leave the drugs king of dumbasses!!!!
By that logic,Tenshinhan who holds Cell did better than Piccolo,A-16 or super sayajins.
You are a fucking joke and your level of retardation is irreversible.
Tenshinhan improves a lot faster than krillin,they trained together to the 23 world tournament and Tenshinhan became a lot stronger than krillin.
By official numbers in the 23 world tournament Cyborg Tao had 210 and Kami 220.
We know what happened to Cyborg Tao,Tenshinhan owned him easily with a single shot.
Five years later krillin had 206.looooooooool
Again Tenshinhan was more powerful before the training with kami that means he is logically going to be more powerful after it which is an official FACT.

Also, Kuririn stated Nappa would go after one of the strongest, which was between Tenshinhan or Piccolo, according to him.
This is what i call a brutal destruction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You got clapped down again!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hail the king!!!!
Do you enjoy being made to look stupid???
Come again retards and i will take you down like maggots!!!
After getting bludgeoned for the umpteenth time this is all you have????? You need sleep. Rest and recuperate, you've been taken apart....again. You should be used to it by now.Owned !!!!!

1 crazy MFG(My Favourite Games) member vs an dbz expert

Well,i found the classic MFG dumb old retarded twisted truth in another forum arguing with some intelligent members.
Guess what?
The fucking dumbass was destroyed!!!!!!!!
Enjoy this destruction!!!!!
Again, a crazy MFG member has been taken apart!!!!!lol
Does anyone know what part of the brain needs to be removed to think that Tenshinhan doesn't have a power level in the millions?lol

DBZ fan with a brain:
Seeing that Tien and the others showed up to fight beings that where so much powerful than freeza shows that they were in the millions specially, cos they felt Freeza’s suppressed level and afterwards Piccolo told them to not show up if they couldn’t become strong enough and that is the reason why tenshinhan left Chaozu behind.
Here you can see Piccolo's warning to Tenshinhan,Krillin and Yamcha:























Akira Toriyama uses his wisest member Piccolo to tell us that Tenshinhan,Yamcha and Krillin would get to the millions during those 3 years of training,ie,the ones who couldn't reach a battle power in the millions shouldn't show up.
They showed up to fight specially Tenshinhan.
Obviously, anyone out of the millions or bellow Freeza's supressed battle power who was at least above 3 millions would get in the way.

Its just for the series to retain any form of logicality, he needs to be in the low millions. An attack being x500 is farfetched, but no more than the SSJ2 multiplier on many lists. But an attack being x30,000... anyone who says Tien is in the low hundred thousands, clearly hasn't got their head around the utter stupidity of this multiplier. I mean my god, its higher than most Potara and SSJ3 put together, and in many cases x10 that.
Tenshinhan was ready to fight with Goku & Piccolo right in the city, and it would be absurd to even consider he's not flirting with at least a Battle Power over a million in a fight with guys stated to "make Freeza seem like a weakling", as Goku puts it.
Tenshinhan went from being outclassed by Old Daimao, to being equal to a weighted Goku after training under Kami/Popo for 3 yrs, who was quite a bit stronger than Young Daimao. Tien can increase a whole lot, easily. He's not restricted to anything.

Tenshinhan didn't go into the room of spirit and time, because he KNEW his power was useless compared to the others by that point. This didn't stop him from training and showing up for the Androids after feeling Freeza's supressed power level who was certainly above 3 millions.

Tenshinhan got harder training from Kaio, and was there for way longer than Goku. He also had others there with him. Tenshinhan got a way bigger increase than Goku from Kami's training with shorter time (3yrs for Goku and 6 months for Tenshinhan) during the training, so there's canon evidence of it being possible; the same can be applied here. He was easily above Ginyu by the time the Trunks saga arrives. Kaio's training is that good.

Tenshinhan always has shown that he could make leaps in power in a short amount of time. This point isn't any different--and actually makes sense considering he had 3 years to prepare.

Tenshinhan doesn't even needs sparring partners,cos he can split in 4 bodies getting stronger training on his own. However, regardless, he still trained and came to the decision that Chaozu "wouldn't be able to keep up" with the upcoming battle.
All of that shows that Tenshinhan was at a respectable enough level to think he can keep up. Clearly over 1 million!!!!!!!!!!! Or does he think he can keep up without even finishing the 100,000 range? lol


Plus,Gohan is put in the same category (None of you can beat the Android) as Tenshinhan by Piccolo. The only one worth mentioning is Super Saiyan Goku.
A power above 100% Freeza.



Tenshinhan can make up any special training routines that would make a significant difference supported by the fact that Tenshinhan
outrights states that he will adapt Kaio's training to go along with his own training making him incredibly strong in the several millions.

Once again, based on Tenshinhan's increases we see this:

Before: Tenshinhan was weaker than Old Daimao

After 3 years: Tenshinhan became equal to Weighted Goku and stronger than old Daimaoh

This is all after Tenshinhan trained under Karin for a bit and training with Chaozu. That's a huge increase.

Before: Raditz stronger than goku and Piccolo by a long shot

After: Tenshinhan stronger than Raditz by a long shot

Tenshinhan after training in much less time compared to Goku surpasses Raditz. Those are all examples of Tenshinhan exceeding normal training methods when he was at a disadvantage. It happened. With Kaio, he had longer and harder training than Goku, so Tenshin being in the millions it is a Fact.In dragonball, it was shown that he's equivalent to goku in power gains.


Tenshinhan always trains hard,and he still invents new things and find new methods to get stronger. He felt he was capable of getting far more stronger then goku did on king kai. It's obvious that Tenshin got at least a third of an increase as all the hardcore saiyans and nameks got.
He'd keep on breaking his human limits as he did as early as dragonball time. Mastering the shin kikoho brought his raw ki up in a rapid succession. There are a ton of reasons how or why he could get that strong.

Assuming he's less than 1 million because he's a human is retarded.
He isn't a regular human,Tenshin has alien ancestry and Krillin went from below 2,000 to around 75,000 in a single day,besides that concept of human is wrong,humans couldn't make ever what krillin did in the 21 World tournament let alone what happens after Raditz's arrival.

The mere fact that he can produce an attack over a hundred times his natural power already means we shouldn't bound him by normal human or even saiyan logic. He has shown to be as good as Goku in training conditions. He was shown to get over 7x stronger in one year of fierce training. If he really wanted, he could even use multi form and beat himself/make himself his own training partner and get incredible mind boggling increases off of that. The possibilities are limitless. And of course "Plot" shows Tenshin became that strong.


The fact that I've shown Tenshinhan canonically exceeds natural gains, even when at a disadvantage, shows he can make great gains regardless. And Piccolo actually was willing to have Tien come along with him with the idea of fighting Cell. Once again, assuming he's less than 1 million just because it doesn't comply with faulty calculations is retarded.


Question:Lets say Tien's 1,000,000. To get to 1,500,000, he'd have to increase his power by 500,000.

Answer:Are you fucking retarded????
By that point, that's not much of an increase at all. Going by points, Piccolo gained an unbelievable amount of them meaning that he went from 1 million to over or equal to 150 millions. He can be a namek, super namek, whatever--but increasing 150 millions is a ton. Tenshinhan can get a 10 fold increase and still be far behind all of them. Gohan was also pretty weak, so his throw down with Super Saiyan Goku & Piccolo wasn't nearly as effective as Piccolo's.
Tenshinhan being a human(he isn't) has no relevance to it, because he can get more out of a year than what Goku did in 8 full years of namek training system. He also had tougher training with Kaio for 266 days, so his training was totally different from Goku's and not comparable.

Kaio claimed training on his planet was the equivalent to thousands of years of training on earth. Tenshinhan trained on this awesome planet for 266 days(more than 6 months) after doing a lot more in 6 months on earth than goku in 8 years.
So just imagine what he did while receiving more intense training than the Saiyan and staying longer than goku in that planet.




Cell was not obviously caught off guard

Cell is talking to #18, then suddenly senses a massive power above him. It's Tien charging the N-Kikoho!!!

Despite having reflexes in the billionths of a second range, Cell is surprised so badly by Tien that he stands still as Tien cries out Shin Kikoho, and then is smashed into a hole by the attack!



After being smashed into the hole, Cell gets up and eyes his opponent with an evil look. Believing Tiens first strike to be his last, he utters the words "Damn You" before a second strike smashes him yet again!


By now, anyone with half a brain(let alone someone with the intelligence of Piccolo) would have realized this could continue for a while. As such, Cell realizes that Tien will continue to strike for multiple attacks. Whilst still flinching from the second strike, Cell is blasted again(or twice again)!



Cell sees the Androids escaping, " I better escape NOW!" he thinks...

MFG dumb old theory:
Cell was not hurt from Tiens Shin Kikoho's, he was just merely pushed back for a couple of minutes

DBZ fan with a brain:
OMFG are you fucking retarded???
He is covered with either scratches, burns, or dirt. He could easily be hurt from the attack, also note how there is smoke coming from his body.
SK It doesn't drain life force, that was a viz mistake. It’s just a very powerful attack, that like all ki attacks if it is used too much will be detrimental to your health.
Again you have been taken apart!!!!!
obliterated!!!!!!! Smashed to pieces!!!!!!!!!!!


MFG dumb old theory:
the Kikoho is a unique technique that does so at such an alarming rate, it is dangerous to the users health.

DBZ fan:
Fucking dumbass, if Goku spammed 20 kamehameha's he would collapse also.
Keep throwing this nonsense at me, and I'll keep taking you outta the park like Pujols!!!!!!!!!!


MFG brainless dumb old theory:

Tien being 150,000 by the Buu Saga IS an increase that is worthy enough for a mere human who never received RoSat(room of spirit and time) training, or training over x10 Earths gravity.


DBZ fan with a brain:
That's why you get bitchslapped and taken apart on the regular dumbass!!!!

Tenshinhan made a special training to the androids saga and he used a special weighted outfit(it is in the manga)probably given by Kaio.
Ten is not a kid anymore he doesn't need a sensei to train anymore, that's why he created something big like shin kikoho.Every time the z-senshi trained for a battle all of them had a big increase in power,that is the standard.

Kame sennin and kami,both explained that training with a master under special conditions and then following with their own regiment to improve even more was the key and a standard repeated several times through Dragon ball and gravity training is not reliable for nothing.
Goku abandoned gravity training and vegeta trained in 150 after mastering 300.

Actually if Goku were able to train in 100xG (before namek), he would weight near 10 tons in the gravity chamber. And it seemed ridiculous that he was considering the 10 tons that the other Kaio suggested, to be impossible for him, and needed to turn SSJ... These 40-tons seems ridiculous for many reasons.

Plus, daizenshuu (and manga) suggests that Tenshinhan was in the millions if listen what he said when goku was fighting Freeza and add kaioken theory according to daizenshuu

Why do you bring the word logic,what happens happens, cause Akira wanted it to happen, there are many things including pl's without logic in dragon ball so what?
Piccolo's increased is not due to his fusion with Nail and training with Goku or else (if we take goku)he would be a match for sayans after those 7 years, considering his fusion with kami, plus goku ssj was a lot stronger than base piccolo,he just couldn't keep up with him so goku has nothing to do with piccolo's increase.
Base piccolo during namek battle=1 million and base goku= 3 millions.

Again Gohan trained with ssj goku too and he could not go to ssj level actually he is mentioned by Piccolo as being close to Tenshinhan and Krillin in power,but on the other hand Piccolo who also trained with ssj goku was comparable to a ssj.
You got smashed again!!!!!!

Raditz trained his whole life on gravity and still he was a weakling.
The true is that everyone increases faster on dbz regardless how they train.

You can't apply db increases to dbz, everything became different, everyone increases faster than ever, that's why
all the months.
I didn't see an exception for the humans z-senshi who improved 732% in a few months
I didn't see an exception for the humans there.
It is obvious that goku and piccolo are better,but piccolo
was a namek and gohan a sayajin in the sayan saga and they were close to the humans.

What some guys are saying is that piccolo
without nail couldn't reach the millions and that is retarded.

Now put that in your pipe and smoke it DUMBASS!!!!


MFG dumb old theory:
What proof do you have that he did special training? There's nothing of the sort ever mentioned. Weighted clothing only works to an extent, hence Goku/Vegeta resorting to higher Gravity, and Ten most definitely reached that extent. His 3 years of training could not have been that incredibly productive to bring his powers from the thousands into the millions. That is, once again, just going by the logic established in the series and ignoring Toriyama 's typical haphazardness.


Answer:

Are you fucking retarded???????lol
He did special training, because he prepared himself to fight
in a big battle against someone stronger than freeza.
And everytime z-senshi train to a big battle all of them got a big increase.
Besides he wanted to test his limits,plus how can you ignore his special outfit?

Read and understand and don't just fly off at the mouth with jibberish!

MFG dumb old theory:

Having an aid or master help you train has nothing to do with how old or mature the character is. Goku is twice the fighter Ten is and he still makes use of Kaio-sama to help him in his training. And I'm not saying Ten didn't get stronger; just that he didn't increase his power into the millions.

Answer:
Listen you dumb stinking rat,do you enjoy being made to look stupid???
You miss the fucking point that none of them needs a master at that point.
Goku ignored gravity training during those years,so there is no reason why Ten could not do the same.
i don't know why do you think millions is such an amazing number to achieve in dbz universe for a z-senshi which is a fucking heroe without fusion or ...well again gravity is not the main thing.


MFG dumb old theory:

What they meant is that is grow as a fighter but for increasing their power, any aid is preferable to no aid. Goku wouldn't have gotten as powerful in the 7 years of peace if not for Kaio-sama's aid. Besides, you are missing the entire point. All the massive increases that put Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo into the millions were either incredible training conditions, or genetic gifts. Goku/Vegeta abused Zenkai's and gravity training and Piccolo took advantage of Nails fusion. Ten doesn't have either of these

Answer:
What they meant is that a z-warrior, a martial artist like them doesn't need a master all the time to improve a lot.
They are grown men and they are smart enough to do it by themselves, that's why Ten said he couldn’t surpass Goku by doing the same training as him and that all he could do was quickly grasp just the point of his training and finally uniquely refine his techniques.

And during those 3 years the only guy using gravity is vegeta. Piccolo didn't have incredible training conditions and still he managed to improve so many millions.Plus, goku didn’t use kaio's aid or gravity to train in those 3 years like Tenshinhan and all of us know that goku did astonishing progresses.
Vegeta didn’t have anybody to help him and became extremely powerful,so your point fails hard.
Again you have been taken apart!!!!!

MFG dumb old theory:
Goku didn't abandon Gravity training, he just never had the opportunity to take advantage of it again or had something better at his disposal. In the three years before the Cyborgs he was training Gohan. There was only one Gravity Chamber anyways and Vegeta was using it. After that, he used the Room of Spirit and Time which is far superior to the Gravity room anyways. Then, he died, and was training in the After-life and I'm pretty sure they lack Gravity Chambers there. The only time he could use it was during the 10 years after the defeat of Buu but we know so little about that period that it's pointless to speculate whether he did or didn't.

Answer:
And the nominees for THE I GOT BITCH SLAPPED THE HARDEST FOR 2WAY THUGGING AWARD are...MFG crazy dumb member.

Goku abandoned Gravity training period, if gravity was the big thing he just could ask Bulma to make a new one for him
and he wasn't just training gohan, he trained himself to become stronger than ever like piccolo and as you can see
piccolo's increase proves that all of them got a big boost.

MFG dumb old theory:

The 40 ton thing when goku was training to the 25 World tournament is irrelevant to this conversation

Answer:
Again trying to ignore the facts dumbass and twist the reality.
You fail again!!!!!!!Actually it is crucial and clearly proves that Toriyama wasn't thinking about gravity as the only way to improve
or else Toriyama wouldn't make a mistake like that.
Worse, vegeta was training in 150 after mastering 300 in those 7 years.



Meaning that when Goku trained at 10x earths gravity (and mastered it) on Kaio's planet, his base powerlevel went up to "over 8.000". Now when he travelled to namek he mastered training in 100xG. But after this training his power level was stated to be "About 85,000". So by training in 10x (100xG) the earlier gravity training, which was 10xG, his powerlevel went about 10 times up... So theoretically (with a linear relation) Goku in SSJ form, where his PL was about 150 million should be able to train in about 150.000xG! Toriyama didn't think about this after the Freeza saga, because Vegeta's training in 100xG ruins this theory.
Actually if Goku were able to train in 100xG (before namek), he would weight near 10 tons in the gravity chamber. And it is ridiculous that he was considering to lift the 10 tons that the other Kaio suggested when , to be impossible for him, and needed to turn SSJ... These 40-tons are ridiculous for obvious reasons.


In daizenshuu 7 Page 119

"Just, there cannot have a big difference between the base fighting potential and his original base (powerlevel)to use it , and if the fighter persists in carrying out a very powerful kaioken his body can explode under the effect of a powerful energy discharge.

For the one whose fighting potential reaches 8.000 the limits to use safely kaioken must be the double, that is to say 16.000.
For the one who has a potential of 3.000.000 kaioken can
increase his powerlevel ten more times "
The text about kaioken also states that kaioken uses life force
French daizenshuu also states that neo kikoho is a stronger version from kikoho.
But, above you could read that if you use an attack with life force and your power level is too low,your body will explode.
Regarding daizenshuu is clear to me that this text suggests that Tien had a power level in the millions.



It clearly states that your body can explode
if you use an attack who is a lot stronger than your base power level
ex:Goku to use safely his kaio ken x 10 had to reach 3 millions.
So shin kikoho is a lot more powerful than kaioh ken x 10 or 20 and if Ten's body didn't explode it is obvious that
he had a pl in the millions.


Dumb MFG old theory:
But Piccolo's power is most definitely due to the Nail fusion. There's no debating that at all. Without the Nail fusion he's weaker then 1st from Freeza, with the fusion he's superior to 2nd form Freeza and has a power level around 1 million. There's not question that the Nail fusion did wonders for his power. And when I mention training with Goku I mean the 3 years before the Cyborgs, not the 7 years after Cell's defeat.


Answer:
I'm trying to say that if the fusion with nail is what made him increase so much during those 3 years, tell me why he couldn't keep up with goku and vegeta after a fusion with kami and 7 years of training.
Plus,Gohan who has more potential than Piccolo and trained with Piccolo and ssj Goku was miles away from Piccolo.
Actually Piccolo says that Gohan Krillin and Tenshinhan belong to the same branch of power,ie,several millions.


Dumb MFG old theory:
Which further backs up my stance that once you get used to one method it no longer becomes benificial (Ten's weighted clothing) and that it takes extreme training conditions to give these massive leaps of power. Something Ten didn't have.

Answer:
Actually is the opposite,cos piccolo used his weighted clothing during those 3 years and you don't know how much
weight had that outfit.
Ten had his extreme training conditions created by himself with everything he learned in the past?
Piccolo didn't have your "special conditions" either and he increased at least 100 milions.
Again gravity is not reliable to prove nothing.
So it makes sense that apart from Vegeta all of them had their personal intensive
conditions.
In piccolo's case gravity wasn't an issue to improve.
Simply Toriyama didn't care about those details.
You got clapped down again!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hailthe king. Kneel down and kiss the wilson pro staff!!!!!!


MFG dumb old theory:

Because they received both new and more intense training during this part of the story

Answer:WOW you are definitely naturally retarded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah,they received intense training by themselves provided by everything they have learned in the past,in Tenshinhan's case Namek training system and Kaio's training system the best in the Universe.
There isn't anybody else to provide extra teachings like in the preparation for the 23 BT where Ten managed to surpass Piccolo daimaoh, former main villain at the time training by himself.
Goku trained alone too for the 22º BT.
The only guy who used high gravity was vegeta so you can't exclude all the others.

MFG dumb old theory:
Because they hadn't taken advantage of their genetic gifts, the Zenkai's and the fusions, and they didn't use the extreme gravity training yet. Before the Saiyan arc weighted clothing was the ultimate thing in personal training. Once the alien races started taking advantage of their gifts they destroyed the humans and that is my point. You can't sit there and look at Goku or Piccolo's increases and say that Ten probably made the same advancements.

Answer:
Piccolo didn't use extreme gravity training ever.
What destroyed the humans was ssj transformation and piccolo fusion with kami.
That's why Ten didn't accept to train in the rosat(room of spirit and time),but he accepted to train for the android saga and obviously he was confident that he could be useful.
What same advancements?
I'm saying that if piccolo improved 100 millions without fusions or gravity why Ten couldn't improve 20 millions?


MFG dumb old theory:
Without Nail or Kami he probably would be hard pressed to do so. After all, as you pointed out, Piccolo and the Humans were rather close before he started took advantage of the Namek Fusion.

Answer:
I see it this way,if there isn't a fusion with nail and let's say piccolo has 150 millions after those 3 years.
You just take from him 1 million,the power level he gained from the fusion with nail.
there you go piccolo without nail would have 149 millions.

Finally, daizenshuu states that Shin Kikoho is a stronger version from the previous Kikoko and in the manga it isn't stated that he used life force,so if you add this
to the statement about goku saying that he needed to reach a pl of 3 millions to use kaioken x10 to avoid self destruction, goku's body could explode.
I cannot see how Tien's body (Ten uses an attack stronger than kaio ken x20) could sustain such a massive attack without explode himself to pieces considering that goku's body could explode with a weaker boost increase.

Plus,You don't know how shin kikoho works,both are dangerous, both can kill you and daizenshuu clearly suggests that both follow similar principles if you think about ten's statements in kaio's planet about mixing kaio's teachings with his techniques everything is solved.
Plus, Tenshinhan knows how much ki goku needed to use kaiokenx10 and he was not impressed.
Basically, it makes all the sense that if you need 3 millions to use an attack who improves your power level 10
times,shin kikoho who improves a lot more than 20 would force you to have a pl above that.



Nail on Piccolo after 6 days on king kai:
"You have an astonishing amount of power" and Piccolo basically agreed.

This puts Piccolo above Nail after 6 days on king kais if you ask me. This all also happened after Nail sensed the power of Captain Ginyu.

Now lets consider that Ten was on King kai 260 days,254 days more then Piccolo,that makes his Pl after king kai rather VERY high.
Considering piccolo progression during those 3 years and the fast pace everyone increased in dbz like in the sayan saga or just the fact that 158 days on Kaiô-sama's planet=several thousand years of training on Earth it is possible that piccolo surpassed nail.
Remember if there isn't a quote saying that Piccolo fought like a ssj against c-20 everyone would say that piccolo had a pl around 12.000.000 using real world logic.
Dbz logic is quite different.


Dumb MFG old theory:
Gravity isn't the only way but it helps immensely. Any and all increases that put the characters at these absurd power levels were either due to absurd training situations (Kami's weighted clothing, 10x gravity, 100x Gravity, 300x Gravity, Room of Spirit and Time, the After-life) or were due to the character taking advantage of unique genetic gifts. (Namekian Fusion, Zenkai's, SSJ forms)

Answer:
Not again dumbass!!!!!!!
Actually my point is crucial and clearly proves that Toriyama wasn't thinking about gravity as the only way to improve
or else toriyama wouldn't make the 40 ton mistake .
Worse,vegeta was training in 150 after mastering 300 in those 7 years.
You also ignore the fact that Goten or Future Trunks who didn't train under gravity 10 100 or 300 managed to reach ssj level in the Earth as you can see gravity isn't an issue for a big boost in Toriyama's mind or in what is presented in the manga.
Future Trunks also is fighting in ssj form against base gohan and he never trained on gravity and base gohan in his base form is playing with him.

I can't see nothing absurd about a z-warrior or an heroe in the story reaching a pl in the millions,it is just a number.
There isn't nothing that suggests something like hello,if you want to cross the 1 million mark please show us your zenkai,assimilation or gravity 100.
You seem like those early idiots from MFG who believed that a ssj had 15 millions.
Basically you are saying that piccolo invited Tenshinhan to train in the rosat,because he is a nice guy.
No,Piccolo is a genius and he is not the favour guy type.
He invited him,because Tenshinhan had a pl in the millions,later in buu's saga majinbuu
with Piccolo's brains calls him pretty strong and considering that he had z- warriors as a reference he learly was in the millions and
no,he wasn't thinking in the humans with 5 or 10 units,cos he had piccolo's knowledge.
Goku wanted to make a fusion with
Ten,that doesn't make any sense if the guy is out of millions. He would lose power.


Dumb MFG old theory:
Gravity was one of the reasons Goku increased his power from 400 to 8,000. Gravity was the sole reason Goku increased his power to 90,000. Gravity is the primary reason Vegeta surpassed Goku in the 3 years before the Cyborgs. Gravity is half the reason the Room of Spirit and Time is so good. Gravity is the reason Vegeta gained SSJ2 during the 7 years of peace. High Gravity training has been clearly shown to aid immensely.

Answer:
Do you enjoy being made to look stupid???

We saw those effects on piccolo when in the earth he improved more than 100 millions or when goku trained 1 month in the rosat(room of spirit and time) during his preparation for the 23ºBT.Gravity on rosat was around 50.
What happened???lol
You just got your dumb theory destroyed, logically gravity wasn't an issue,plus vegeta was training in 150 after mastering 300 in those 7 years.
Vegeta is the only one using gravity,because he is the only character at the time who can surpass goku.

You got obliterated put back together so I could obliterate you again!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Dumb MFG old theory:
Goku didn't do much better during the 3 years he traveled the world between 21st and 22nd tournament. And Vegeta, taking advantage of training in high Gravity, increased his power level by the millions. Which method seems better to you.

Answer:
OMFG you are lost in your retardation!!!!!!
Goku improved a lot by dragon ball standards.
In dbz parameters changed,they are not fighting anymore against humans.
They are fighting against aliens and against enemies where formers levels and rate increase became irrelevant.All of them need to improve a lot more to stay in the story.


You confuse dragon ball increases with dbz increases,
things changed in dbz,that is the reason why the humans improved in a few months from 250 to near 2000 in the Earth.
They are capable to improve by themselves in the earth.
I'm sure that if there isn't nappa's statement saying that saibamen had a pl around 1200,you would say that the saibamen were weak and that there is no way the humans could improve so much in a few months.
Plus,these guys are not regular humans,a normal human can make the feats presented in the world tournaments by the z-heroes.



Dumb MFG old theory:
So Goku going from 8k to 90k had absolutly no effect on the humans being left in the dust. Vegeta going from less then 3 million to being able to dent #19's face had no effect on the Humans being outclassed?

Answer:
How is that if piccolo in just 6 days managed to surpass nail,all of them trained together there is no reason to believe that the humans didn't get an huge increase there like in the sayajin saga.


Dumb MFG old theory:
Your entire argument is assuming Piccolo got into the 100 millions. There's nothing to back that up. We don't even know if #19 and Gero were stronger the Freeza and odds are they aren't.

Answer:
OMFG it is a fact that A-20 and A-19 were the original main androids,but Toriyama's editor asked for a new ones and Toriyama made A-17 and A-18,so the odds say that they were stronger than Freeza 100%.

And no,i already explained you the issues with gravity and the general progresses everyone did training for the sayajins.
Yes,krillin's statement proves that piccolo was in a ssj level.
If you choose to ignore it,because disproves your theory that is another story.
Piccolo going from over 1,000,000 to the Super Saiyan-tier (100,000,000+?) in three years or Tenshinhan and the gang doing better at Kami's half of the time without weights in a year than Goku did in 8 years of supreme namek training system. It shows that you gain power faster, the higher you get.This is what happens in dbz with everyone who belongs to the z-group.
Even, if they are weaker than freeza 100%,obviously, Android 20 was that strong, then it means 19 is even weaker(stated in the daizenshuu). SSJ Goku would've wasted 19 in a matter of seconds, seriously. He was being slowed down, but he was still powerful. No one that weak would be strong enough to be slapped around that much.
Goku was kickin the shit out of 19 before he absorbed anything. Even Piccolo said Goku was rushing the battle.
Goku was out of breath when they arrived, but when he transformed into SSJ, Tien was amazed, so we know he's still powerful. It was stated Goku's energy dropped when he fired that beam.


Tell me, why did Tien, expert in martial arts, self train if partner training is 10x better? The answer: It's not.

Dumb MFG old theory:
Fusing with Tien>Fusing with Hercule or Dende


Answer:
It is a shame that tenshinhan was the only guy presented by goku as the only valuable option.

Dumb MFG old theory:

Uh, yes. Piccolo respects Ten as a fighter and was willing to give him a chance in the Room of Spirit and Time. Ask yourself this: If Ten wasn't standing right next to them do you really think Piccolo would have flown down to wherever Ten was and made the same offer? Of course not.

Answer:
This is not our world or a real life moment,this is a cartoon, Toriyama puts Tenshinhan there,he had the power to take him out or even not use piccolo to make that suggestion or even not make that suggestion at all.

Get over it dumbass!!!!!!!!!!!

Dumb MFG old theory:
No, but he does show respect and Kami is the kind of guy that is generous and give favors.

Answer:
OMFG how can you keep making these dumb biased statements????lol
You fail, kami is gone, piccolo’s personality is in charge now,and he is not going to make kind suggestions.
Owned again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dumb MFG old theory
Re-read the part. Goku brought Ten up as possible replacement after Gohan got absorbed. He also brought up Dende; Is he now in the hundreds of millions too?

Answer:
Again fucking with mindless shit imbecile??lol
You are the one who needs to re-read that part, he made objections to dende and mister satan,the only guy regarded as valuable in that situation it was tenshinhan.
You love to be taken apart about the same subject over an over again.


If you look at dragon ball as a whole the trigger who takes an heroe to an astonishing improvement is a big battle.
The enemies changed in dbz and logically all of them will make big leaps. But they can't compete with a ssj,that is different.
I'm saying that ten had several millions by the reasons expressed above including manga and daizenhuu quotes.


Dumb MFG old theory
Differnciating the two is silly.The characters were weak in Dragon Ball and got stronger when, surprise surprise, they began training in 10x gravity, an extreme condition. My point is continually backed up.

Answer:
OMFG you look like a broken record you fucking dumbass!!!!!!!!
When someone destroys your pathetic assumptions,let's take them out of context to look smart,lol
2way thugging at it's finest!!!!!!!!!!

Actually,it is the only way to understand the story,surprise surprise,goku trained on room of spirit and time in db and he got almost nothing.I guess rosat(room of spirit and time) didn't have extreme conditions there.looooooooool
Your point is continually disproved,those idiots on MFG brainwashed you.lol


After getting bludgeoned for the umpteenth time,you should take your ass whooping like a man and comeback to your beloved circle of friends with your dumb interpretation of dbz!!!!!!

Dumb MFG old theory
Yes, but not to the extent Goku or Piccolo did on Namek.

Answer:
Finally, you are opening your thick skull.lol
Not to the extent of a ssj Get it?

Dumb MFG old theory
Yes, it has nothing to do with them training with Kami and getting weighted clothing for the first time. EVERYTHING in a story is dictated by plot, but that doesn't mean the story doesn't also add reason along with it. Of course they got stronger because it was dictated by the plot, but the reasoning presented alongside is that Kami's training and weighted clothing allowed that increase. We are debating in-universe reasoning; not that the plot dictates increases



Answer:
Now,you want to use the plot as an excuse???
Pathetic!!!!!
Plot for sayajins??Fuck, all of them got destroyed by Nappa,there is no reason for a plot device here fucking idiot.
So, there is a plot to increase against the sayajins,but there isn't a plot to increase against the cyborgs.
Half of the time they trained by themselves without weights.Owned pretty bad Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only plot is that everytime the z-senshi train for a big battle their pl's increase a lot.
That training show us that everyone starts to improve faster than ever.
why?Because, the enemies got stronger,db ridiculous small increases are not a reference anymore,so with the new powerful enemies,new big improvements.


You need sleep. Rest and recuperate, you've been taken apart....again. You should be used to it by now.lol


Dumb MFG member

They had different training. Goku was trained by Mr. Popo to control his chi. The Humans were trained by Kami himself to combat the Saiyans. Their training was too different to draw comparisons to.

Answer
No, it wasn't, popo knowledge came from kami and goku applied
those teachings during 8 years,in both scenarios they trained to survive and beat powerful foes and save the earth and half of the time tenshin and the gang trained by themselves.Actually the manga shows Tenshin training by himself there.
Krillin against popo,etc.
Owned again fuck damn it!!!!!

Again you have been taken apart!!!!!
obliterated!!!!!!! Smashed to pieces!!!!!!!!!!!
MFG getting torn a new one!!!!!!!!!

If it bothers you I suggest you get over it, cry me a river build a bridge and get over it!!!!!!!!!
This is what i call a devastating destruction!!!!!
MFG crazy biased members have been destructed DIRECT QUOTES. Full of lies, contradictions, backsliding and 2way thugging for everyone to see!!!!!! Don't cry now
you got clapped down again!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hail the king. Kneel down and kiss the dbz pro staff!!!!!!

MFG member:
Thank you master,finally i understand the truth and how dbz logic works.
Some of those suckers fucked me up on MFG and i almost became a cronic dumbass.
Now,i'm free and thanks to you i can understand everything very well.
Thank you great DBZ master!!!!

Answer:
No problem,some of those bastards are dumb as fuck,but there are a lot of persons who can teach you the truth.
Do you intend to comeback there?

MFG member:
No master,because some of them even call daizenshuu staff a bunch of geeks and don't call me MFG member anymore ok,because,now i'm a former member.

Answer:
Those stupid fanboys never learn,they are the geeks.lol
And you are right,now you are a dbz fan free from old MFG retarded baseless conclusions.

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!

Former MFG member:
Well done master!
Just to let you know,in the end of every thread about Tenshinhan, a dumbass asks every single fucking time how could Tenshinhan reach the millions.lol
Someone there explains,but he just keeps repeating the same old retarded bullshit"...
they are humans and they never made special training..."

Answer:I know,above you already know the answer to these questions,so just forget it,it is pointless discuss with some brainless fanboys who behave like fundamentalist
idiots.
Manga this,manga that...lol,yeah the manga has some inconsistencies and thanks to the daizenshuu we can understand better dbz story.
Really,does anyone know what part of the brain needs to be removed to think that Tenshinhan doesn't have a power level in the millions?lol